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Open Scening in the Tavern

Refusal of Challenges.. What's honorable?



Open Scening in the Tavern

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL.. Okay, folks.....lets get this forum started.... same rules as always.... if anybody has a question about what or how to do things, PM Me...also if you have a topic, PM Me....

Rollo the Ax~~~ Okay, folks.... the first topic of the mark tonight is open scening or open furring in the tavern ???? Lets hear what ppl think or have to say....

Errand_Knight~~~ Rollo: the issue, a general issue, is whther open scening is to be encouraged in the tavern and if so whether it cases concern to Aany

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ Well....isn't furring what the alcoves (private rooms) are for? A girl means, if there are a lot of people in the tavern, discussing whatever, it can be a tad confusing to have a public scening going on.
On the other hand, it *is* a Gorean paga den, be it online, and in the books, let's just say that the masters nor the slaves were modest.
If you don't like it...leave? Or ignore the words?

Shadowglade~~~ Frankly Captain, I find open scening rather unnecessary...*shrugs* it happened often in the books, but as We have often discussed, online Gor, and the books don't always meet...
My opinion on it is that it is distasteful, and unecessary...I would be the first to admit that I've done it in the past, but as I have come to know more about Gor, and understand what it is to be gorean, I have seen that open scening is often the only reason many come to Gor...*shrugs* and that saddens Me...as if that were all there were to do on Gor...

Kayla~~~ ~smiling a ja'dain's words~... I am sure most have seen it in some shape or fashion... it is a common occurence.. but ... should We encourge it?... or encourage the use of the alcoves?....

talender{GS}~~~ tal thinks open furring is a natural part of gor, it happened in the books and we are trying to stay as close to them as possible. if someone doesn't want to read a public scene then they can either
a. leave or
b. simply ignore it
~shrug~

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ In ja'dain's humble opinion...she would vote for the alcoves, Mistress. But...she is but a slave and her opinion doesn't really count. Not to mention, she really doesn't wanna piss anyone off.

nicnac{DD}FG~~~ nods in agreement with tal

Errand_Knight~~~ *thinks it would indeed be a sad thing if scening, public or private, were all Gor were about ....would just become HNG quickly ...but it is a part of Gor*

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding to EK* that is true, but in GS I personally have seen alot of HNG come and go...a few have stayed, and become good strong Goreans....but the numbers are very few of those, in My opinion...lately it seems there are more HNG than usual...but then I was away for a long time, perhaps the HNG population on Gor has just grown, and many have become accustomed to it...*shrugs*

galah{RA}~~~ **nods in agreement with talender** it all ends up with the domino effect....we allow FW to frequent the tavern, something that was not common in the books, now FW don't like to see open sceneing, so then we are to do away with that part of the books also?

talender{GS}~~~ making all furring take place in private is not going to stop the influx of HNGs, they are going to come around no matter what

Kayla~~~ LOL... Well dear as a slave and I as FW I can understand that feeling ~grins~ I encourage softly the use of the alcoves for several reasons... that there are those that are offended.. and Aye they might not be great Gorean material if they are so but imagine your first visit to a Gor site and that is what you walk in on.. either it will repulse you or intrigue you...LOL... I guess I try looking out for All.. both sides

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ with much respect.. a girl dont' feel that there's anything wrong with a Master using a girl openly..
as far as to encouraging it??? she's unsure what is being said.. if a Master is openly engaging with a girl.. and a girl responds to it.. she don't feel that it's encouraging it from that standpoint.. after all a slave can't just say to a Master.. (not speaking of those personally owned and not permitted to open scene).. but she can't say.. *no*.. but that's just this one's humble opinion..

Shadowglade~~~ Well, I do remember the conversation of ROP....has that been installed, and if so, how is it being enforced?

Errand_Knight~~~ seems there are some who find it all better left private and others who, like Me, actually enioy watching a good scene between a true Master and an experienced slave

galah{RA}~~~ and does it not lead into personal preference of a Master? there was once a Captain here that preferred or often used a slave publically, even indulged in slave rape when it suited Him

Phen~~~ Well I do not have a problem with open scening I feel though it is up to the Master who is doing this...If there is a really interesting conversation happening in the tavern I am sure that Most would prefer to join in the discussion than to open screen...Now I did say most*laughs*

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ Quite frankly...a public scening does not offend a girl but it *can* be interruptive (not sure if that's the right word) or distractive.
Have to agree with you, tal. Alcoves have never nor will they ever stop HNGs from coming to GS.

nicnac{DD}FG~~~ when done properly a scene can actually be quite beautiful...~quickly lowering her eyes~

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Kayla's point~ I must say that I was a bit shocked (pleasantly ~S~) to see talender and EK furring openly. Others might be offended and leave w/o learing more about GS and Gor...

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ What is ROP, Master Shadowglade?

Dark Dragon~~~ well, I think it should be left to the parties involved with out interference from others , if they are comfortable, then none should bother them

Kayla~~~ Aye Knight that is so also... I am neither offended nor either interrested in the act.... I have seen it so many times it is rather old hat now ~smiling~
But what about Our Home here... what do We want as the usual norm?... When talking about splitting into 2 rooms it was discussed there would be a difference in that kind of thing.. but in the mean time?... Or do the Men should be discreet when a FW or Newbie enters?....
Just throwing out questions here Folks *S*

Rollo the Ax~~~ Well..... lets face it.... GS was opened as a GOREAN site.... and Gor is a man's world.... open scening is and has been a part of on-line Gor for ever.... To be blunt about it, it does seem to be more of a problem for the many FW that come in than for the Masters or slaves..... And while I not only enjoy allowing FW to come to a paga tavern in Port Kar, but think that they have the right to be here in the on-line system, I also feel that they come into GS KNOWING that there may be things they don't agree with or have no control over.......

galah{RA}~~~ **nods in agreement with Master Knight** it's all about a true gorean atmosphere, on occasion, it's not like it's done all the time anyway, for MOST Masters do prefer to go private when it gets to a serious point

nicnac{DD}FG~~~ when did Master become discreet Mistress Kayla, that is not Gorean....

talender{GS}~~~ ~licking her lips remembering the Captain galah speaks of then nods in agreement with Master Errand and nic nac~
tal too loves to watch an open scene and to be honest she loves to fur in public

Dark Dragon~~~ well, you can find open scening in almost any adult chat room, I assumed that was why this was a room for adults only !

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ja thinks that it all comes down to personal preference. If she wanted to see a master and a slave fucking, she'd ask Master to put up a mirror in his chamber ceiling. BUT...and there's a big but here (and no, not ja's ass)...this IS a Gorean paga tavern.
Don't like it? Do as tal suggested. Ignore it or leave.
You don't HAVE TO like it.

Kayla~~~ ~smiling at nicnac~... Just throwing out questions and possibilities here dear... ..LOL

Rollo the Ax~~~ The simple fact of the matter is that GS allows open scening.... if a man would rather go to an alcove than * do it * in public, fine..... On Gor, a man could throw a kajira on a table and have her right there in front of everybody.... no questions asked.....

Lemuel~~~ ~nods at Dark Dragon's word's~ There is that...

Asellus~~~ *smiling over at ja'dain* I can usually ignore it, and if it becomes annoying, I'll leave. *Shrugging* I don't really have a problem with it. I accept that as a natural occurrance in the tavern.

Kayla~~~ ~Grinning at ja'dain's words~

Errand_Knight~~~ * concerned though that there are Mmany here who luv this Tavern and who make it an important part of Ttheir lives ...not wanting to cause Aany to be concerned or wishing to withdraw from Ttheir vt Home ...but wanting to be as true to Gor as possible*

talender{GS}~~~ ~nods at Master Rollo's words thinking throw tal on a table and use her PLEASE~ hehehehe

Kayla~~~ ~smiling softly at the Knight~

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling~ Has anyone ever been heckled when open scening?

Asellus~~~ *Muttering beneath Her veils* ....it's even amusing sometimes to watch. *shaking Her head*

Shadowglade~~~ Well, I find it annoying if that's all I ever see a Man do...fur in public...isn't there more to Gor than using a slave? what of that? I don't know, I find it rather disheartening when that is all I see....

Kayla~~~ heckled?.... Oh Man that would be mean.... ~staring wide eyed at Lemuel~

Dark Dragon~~~ only with the disgusted looks by some. which is disruptive to the parties involved !

Shadowglade~~~ *winking to Lemeul* now THAT'S an idea I hadn't thought of....*chuckle*

Asellus~~~ *Biting Her lower lip as Shadowglade speaks, nodding silently*

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ Yes Kayla, it would be mean, but I've seen it happen RT.

Kayla~~~ ~nodding at Shadowglade's words~ There are those that it seem like that is all they do ... I guess they have a healthy appetite ~grins~

Blade Bane's ja`dain~~~ ~**dark eyes wide at Master Lemuel**~ Someone heckled a couple furring, Master?????? In rt???? Now *that's* not nice at all

Phen~~~ 'Shadow yes if thats all one sees it would be disheartening but I am sure that as we are all adults here a balance could be sort some how...

Rollo the Ax~~~ Does that mean that * I * would do it ??? haven't done so yet....LOL.. BUT, like with many things in life, if it is a right that is allowed, I will defend it ...... If a FW comes in and it bothers Her, that is the price of living in a MAN'S world... if she says something to the man, and he takes it elsewhere, fine and dandy..... BUT !!!!! she has no right to try and ORDER the man out..... and like with any other Gorean matter, the FW must decide if she is willing to risk her position by trying to bend a man to her will .........

galah{RA}~~~ Master Shadowglade, it's only one aspect of what we do, we serve drink and food, the Masters spar...there's not much else to do beside converse otherwise, so to take one aspect away only leaves that much less to do?

Kayla~~~ Well DD just as it is acceptable to fur as FM in the Tavern the looks or comments can and will happen I am sure... and it is the same.. if One does not like them they can do 3 things leave, ignore or pull steel...
Not all that anyone says is going to be liked by all *S*

Dark Dragon~~~ but this isn't RT, it's VT, and Gor !

Errand_Knight~~~ My reading is that many taverns were full of masters using slaves publicly ...it was more than a common occurrence, part of the release masters sought along with the other wonderful rituals of gor ...a normal part of gor though...though others were more family oriented ...just trying to find the balance of GS as One wishes it as His home

Lemuel~~~ ~nods to ja~ Yes, people kissing and fondling in public have been told "Get a room" or comments on their technique.

talender{GS}~~~ nope never been heckled and this one just ignores anyone trying to interupt her scening. she's not here at that moment to please them anyway she's here to please the One using her and it is only Him that will cause her or make her stop what she's doing

Dark Dragon~~~ but in public, it is not openly permissable anyway !

Kayla~~~ Oh I could just see how well it would go over if I stood up and stomped My foot and told some Man to quit or to leave... I can run but not that fast...LOL

Asellus~~~ Good, Kayla! *smiling and nodding at Her words*

Shadowglade~~~ *chuckling at galah* I'm not saying it should be stopped, but I think it important that it were known that One will lose the respect of One's peers if that is all He does...*shrugs* and if that does not concern Him, in My opinion, I think perhaps that One is not Gorean, but rather HNG...of course We should have the right to open scene if We wish, and of course not all will have the courtesy to take it elsewhere if it bothers Another....We are not "civilized" in the Earthen sense...*shrugs* nor do I expect us to be...but I think there is a fine line of good taste, and HNGism....*shrugs*

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ~**shakes her head softly**~ That's terrible Master Lemuel.

Lemuel~~~ ~nods at DD~ True...but who decides what is permissible?

Asellus~~~ *chuckling*.... on both accounts!

nicnac{DD}FG~~~ her brow furrows and she bites at her lip, fighting to hold her temper*

Phen~~~ My interpretation of the books is in the Taverns most grab a key or a disk and head to an alcove but in a brothel it is open slather...

galah{RA}~~~ Master Lemuel, a girl thinks the Masters have too much respect and honor to do such a thing as to heckle another Master, or to comment on his way of doing it...that would not be acceptable by gorean standards

Dark Dragon~~~ I believe to a red silk slave, she likes to show off all her talents, not just the ones that would be classed as respectable by earthen terms

Shadowglade~~~ but galah....would that not depend on whether the Man in question feels respect is due the Other?

talender{GS}~~~ seems to this one any kind of interference from a FW or another slave during a scene is wrong, looks, suggestions to go to an alcove or whatever. at least whisper the sugestion to the Master if you have such a need to make it.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Phen's comment~
That is my understanding as well. There might some kissing and fondling, but when it came time to get down to business the master would usually take the girl to an alcove.

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. heckel ???? now THAT is what I would call a * show stopper *....LOL...LOL... anybody ever done a study on * virtual preformance anxiety * ????? LOL...LOL... I don't like seeing HNGs that ONLY fur the girls either....and those sort of guys don't usually last long...( on Gor at least, I don't know how they last in the alcoves.....LOL. you kajira would have to answer that....LOL..)

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to galah~ Depends on the nature of the comment. Guys out in a bar sometimes root for each other.

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ Master Dragon....all slaves are different. ja'dain is trained to the online level of red silk, and even by Gorean standards she is a red silk slave, ie, not a virgin.
That does *not* mean she likes to scene in public, nor does her master.
Just as every free person has his/her own preference, so do the slaves online. It's just that slaves generally don't get a chance to voice their opinions in such matters.

Dark Dragon~~~ the local law does, which is driven , mostly by FW on earth anyway , but as I understand Gor, it's a mans world !

Kayla~~~ talender a FW has the right to speak just better be sure She is careful and does it with some respect towards the Man in question... and even then it may be a risk... but She does have the right to speak.... ~smiling at the pretty girl~

Dark Dragon~~~ but some do like to, and it should be allowed !

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ~**nods in agreement with tal's words...then keels over laughing at Master Rollo's**~

Lemuel~~~ ~nods at talender's comment~ Yes, that would be the tactful thing to do.

Asellus~~~ I think *speaking tenderly here and cautiously at the same time* that the HNG typically follows a "routine". The girl enters and is called right away to His side, made to serve, the serve is ignored basically, then she is either openly furred or alcoved. It just seems like that request to serve is a waste of time, in a way

galah{RA}~~~ well Master Shadowglade, galah is quite sure it would depend on mutual respect....as slaves go through stages, this one thinks Masters do to....granted there are the HNG when first they come, then they seem to get into the groove of what gor is all about, although the alcoving is still a high priority....many or most of the Masters here went through the stage of trying out nearly every slave....then they go onto the next stage and want more than just furring, and that is fine tooo, but these stages leave good gorean kajira without GOOD gorean Masters to use them and satisfy that desire to serve and please

Lemuel~~~ ~nods at DD~ Yes, but is it right for others to decide how I conduct myself?

Asellus~~~ That is kind of what I find distasteful.....*settling back, listening*

Kayla~~~ It is a Man's world DD... and I would not change that for anything... ~grinning~ but Women have their place... whether they are Free or slave.... and some of those Women know Their stuff on Gor... ~smiling brightly at Phen and Asellus~

Shadowglade~~~ That is true galah...I cannot disagree...

Asellus~~~ *Chuckling, waving back at Kayla* Thanks!

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ arianna suggests drink LOTS of kalana (for those offended by it) and just don't watch.

talender{GS}~~~ true Mistress Kayla but is it not rude to interupt?
sorry Everyone who knows this girl knows she speaks bluntly, she means no disrepect but she finds it rude to interupt a scene and if truth be known such a thing only makes tal want to become more graphic in her sceneing.
~shrug~ but that is just tal and how her RT Mate raised her to be

Dark Dragon~~~ no one says you have to, it's up to each's own preference, and should be left at that !

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding to Lemuel* It certainly is, if He can best You in the pit *chuckle* but that is the only way One can enforce His opinion on Another on Gor....*shrugs*

galah{RA}~~~ exactly Mistress Asellus, but as you can hear, the gorean Masters don't wish the girls services....so the new gorean, the learner satisfies a deep need in slaves....most real HNG's won't use a girl publically because he is not that confident, it's that in between Master that performs a necessary gorean job

Lemuel~~~ ~nods smiling~ Just playing devil's advocate...I too believe that each person should decide for themselves.

talender{GS}~~~ ~laughing at arianna's suggestion~

Phen~~~ Look as a FW on Gor I can understand how certain FW will get upset or dislike open scening. As the FW is the most highly respected of all on Gor and some may take it that open scening does not show this respect but as it has been said it is a Man's world and what of respect to a Man of Gor...

Shadowglade~~~ *agreeing with Lemeul* Aye, and be prepared to back it up, if it comes to that....

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL... habits are as different on Gor as they are on earth...LOL.. alcoves may well be the most common in bigger cities...in Torvaldsland, the bond maids are used on the tables, under the tables, in the open sleeping shelfs, LOL.. ANYWHERE.....LOL...This question may well have a degree of answer or * closer * if and when we get the Piazza opened.... if GS has the two rooms, then we can make a distinction between the two rooms and perhaps say * open scening is okay in the tavern, but not in the Piazza * ????

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckles at Shadowglade's comment~ Aye, that is sometimes the case RT as well.

Kayla~~~ SO when One enters the Tavern they are to tiptoe?... LOL.. Well dearest.. that won't happen by the Masters or Ladies... that may enter... SO We are not to greet those engaged in whatever???... not to speak to them?... I think that if someone did not want to be bothered while they are throwing down then they would not be in a public place *S*... tis a risk of open sceening is it not? ~smiling softly at her~

Dark Dragon~~~ I think the rules stated for this site should prevail, and no one should change them for that moment they are here, regardless of how distasteful it maybe to them !

Errand_Knight~~~ *laffin* must be an in-between Gorean then ...hope My learning keep Me here for a while

Asellus~~~ Sure, galah, I understand that. *nodding, eyes sincere*
It's just the repeat offenders. *soft chuckle* There are more ways for a newbie to get involved in Gor, so to speak, outside of furring. That can be done in any site. So now is it really about the slave that's being furred and her needs being met? Or what the Master's wishes entail? A new Master can learn not only about Gor from a mere slave, but also by enacting with the Free present. Many of the Free aren't "that" intimidating, that a Man must immediately grab the first slave that comes by to occupy Him....

galah{RA}~~~ well Master Errand Knight...galah only hopes you don't go the way of every other long time gorean Master, that can't be bothered with the likes of a slave anymore

Asellus~~~ Some of the Free really do try to involve those newer to Gor.

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding to the senior Captain* Aye Captain, I think perhaps that would be a better time....til then, any problems I have, I will simply take up with the individual, or individuals I take exception with...*chuckle* as is My right as a Gorean Man....

Errand_Knight~~~ *has never thought of a Free as intimidating ...wonders what the gorean word for that is ...prolly doesn't exist*

talender{GS}~~~ ~shrugs~ couldn't say Mistress, tal doesn't greet people when they are in a scene nor does she return greetings when she is in one.

nicnac{DD}FG~~~ she turns to her Master...gazing upward at Him and nodding, her eyes betraying the anger that fills them

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at the Captain's words~

Rollo the Ax~~~ as for Who, When, or Why ??? We all go through learning and growing stages .....in RT and here, on-line.... and things change... what is * neat * right now, may lose its appeal down the road....

Errand_Knight~~~ galah: I find it hard to forsee for I know My heart

Kayla~~~ ~laughing at Asellus word's~ Amen Lady *S*

Dark Dragon~~~ if you show open dislike to something, you also invite more open dislike in return though

Phen~~~ Yes Captain I agree completely and I feel that open scening should be allowed in the Tavern regardless and up to the Masters' discretion..Open furring is a good way to teach a girl her slavery that is why I have tied the girl to the table...

Kayla~~~ as it should be talender ~soft smiles~... a slave should never greet when in ANY kind of serve... it is distracting *S*...

Shadowglade~~~ *laughing at DD* I know how to handle open dislike....*patting the hilt of My short sword* hasn't been a problem for Me thus far....

Dark Dragon~~~ very true Captain, and should be given time to work through and gain what ever the individual may at the time

Phen~~~ Kayla, as for greeting a Man when in this position I would greet and if He answered I would continue to speak with Him as if the girl was just serving Him which she is but in another way...If He didn't well I would treat it as though He where in a spar and occupied...

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at my Caste Brother's words~ Aye, it is better to do as tal suggested and whisper or set them to "ignore"

Kayla~~~ It is not in the Gorean nature DD to hide One's feelings like a school girl ~smiles~ If a FW shows the displeasure She knows the risks She takes or better for She may find out fast *S*

Dark Dragon~~~ yeah, but is it in the best interest of the tavern to kill everyone that disagrees with you, for long you're all alone !! or , ya meet your match, and end up being killed over something meaningless !

Shadowglade~~~ *Steel blues darken* honor is never meaningless DD....

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. People some plain truths here...LOL.. everybody knows how slow I am at typing and spelling, right ??? Just imagine how difficult..( I WON'T say * hard * ...LOL. ) it is for somebody like Me to cyber ???? LOL..LOL.. it's never been a huge part ( okay, you CAN make fun of that one ..LOL ) for Me here in on-line Gor ....so the whole thing is a bit abstract....LOL.. but like I said, it IS allowed in GS, so it is OKAY..... plain and simple....

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling lightly at the Captain's words~

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Refusal of Challenges.. What's honorable?

Rollo the Ax~~~ Okay.... has everyone had enough of this topic ??? LOL. How about we move on to another ????

Kayla~~~ ~listening for the next topic with a smile~

Lemuel~~~ ~listening eagerly for the next topic~

Phen~~~ *Listening for the next topic*

Kyoto~~~ Tal and greetings everyone, I like this topic, why leave it? *grinning mischieviously*

shadow{HoS}~~~ shadow smiles up to her Mistress and Master as she waits the next topic *s*

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ~**eagerly awaits the next topic**~

Shadowglade~~~ I have one: What should be done, if One issues a right, and honorable challenge to Another, and the challenge is refused?

Kyoto~~~ *Hearing the topic raised by Shadowglade*
The one who refuses has no honor, but as this is on-line, I doubt there is much you CAN do...

Kayla~~~ ~sitting back listening to this topic with a smile~

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ Errrr...move on, Master Shadowglade? Like Master Kyoto said...you really can't force anyone to do anything online. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

Phen~~~ Depends on what Caste the one that refuses the Challenge belongs too...If One is of the Warrior Caste then by the Codes One must accept the challenge if not of the Warrior Caste well...

Lemuel~~~ ~raising an eybrow at Kyoto~ Different Castes have different ideas about what is honorable.

Shadowglade~~~ I would agree...but then how would we as a community treat such a one?

Kyoto~~~ Well, perhaps a post to the subs board stating the challenge and the subsequent refusal.

Lemuel~~~ ~looking from Shadowglade to Kyoto~ I assume that you are speaking strictly of a challenge to another Warrior?

Rollo the Ax~~~ My thoughts ???? No matter how right or proper any challenge is, it is still only that.... a challenge, until BOTH parties accept it.... if for whatever reason the challenged party does NOT accept or acknowledge it, they are subject to answer for their own actions, ( or lack of such ...) but lets face it... it takes TWO ppl to fight....

Phen~~~ As a community we have heads that govern Us maybe a post to them with Ones' grievances and the others actions for the Council to deal with the matter then...

dove{DD}~~~ the girl is trembling from this conversation, looks to her Master and asks nervously Master can One challenge a wonderful builder such as You, Master You are not a warrior but a fine builder this slave fears for Your life

Kyoto~~~ I would suppose so, Lem, I honestly don't know the protocol if he is of another caste. A man is a man though..

talender{GS}~~~ ~shrugs at this topic as she'll never be challenged to a sword fight~

Shadowglade~~~ Nay Lemuel, I don't...*shrugs* I mean, Any challenge to Any....*shrugs*

Lemuel~~~ ~nods at Kyoto's words~ True, but it would be foolish for a man not well versed in combat to accept a chalenge from a warrior, wouldn't it?

Kyoto~~~ At least not one of steel, eh talender? *grinning impishly*

Shadowglade~~~ Then the question is, how would One of one caste deal with Another of another caste, if there were a disagreement? how would it be handled?

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to Shadowglade~ Ahhh...Then I would say if the One challenged is not of the Warriors, then there would be no dishonor in refusing. There may be consequences to not accepting though

shadow{HoS}~~~ giggles hard, well the only battle shadow knows of is the ones in the furs, but shadow will always lose with respect ~L

Errand_Knight~~~ *breaks up at Kyotos comment to tal*

calia{SABRE}~~~ kneeling into her upturning heels~* bluest eyes roam about as one listens.....

Phen~~~ *Looking to the girl tal* Maybe so girl but one day you may be in the collar of One who is and respect should be given to all topics discused here regardless!

Kyoto~~~ Well, in the books, Tarl did fight a slaver...

Lemuel~~~ ~nods at Kyoto~ Aye, Cernus...(I think)

talender{GS}~~~ ~chuckles at Master Kyoto~
tal can handle the other kind of sword fight very well

Shadowglade~~~ isn't it also stated in the books that all people of all castes know how to fight in defense of their property? and that even one of the peasant caste is fierce when defending what is his?

Kyoto~~~ And a battle need not be to the death, there is such a thing as an honor battle. I guess it would depend on how strongly the challenged wants to "stick to his guns". Getting into a disagreement with a man bristling with weapons is never a good thing if you can't back yourself up.

shadow{HoS}~~~ shadow does not understand why a disagreement has to be handled with battle, Does not One gorean Master have the right to disagree with another? excluding HNG's of course..

Kyoto~~~ I think even Tarl Cabot was leary of fighting a peasant when that man's homestone was at stake.

calia{Sabre}~~~ leaning off her heels as she whispers toward shadow...
honor.....strength....

Lemuel~~~ ~nods~ Yes Shadowglade, but they where usually speaking of their property or Home Stone

Kyoto~~~ Of course, shadow, but sometimes an argument can get so out of hand that one party feels compelled to back his stand with steel. It's the way of men... a hormone thing I suppose.

talender{GS}~~~ Well Mistress Phen, don't think tal was disrepecting the topic she simply has no input as she's not a Warrior or a Man so it is best she listen and not get invloved

Dark Dragon~~~ nor should it be honorable for a warrior to goad one of caste that doesn't wish to fight !

Phen~~~ But wasnt Cernus admitted into the Caste of Warriors?

shadow{HoS}~~~ leaning towards calia as she smiles, mayhaps a girl does think small, but of honor and strength, shadow knows not....

Kyoto~~~ Before or after he died? *g*

Rollo the Ax~~~ Okay... again, My feelings or thoughts ...... a * challenge * can mean many things to many ppl.... even in RT I have had ppl * get in My face * that could have resulted in a fight....sometimes it came to blows, but many times it got handled by talking it out, or over.... one thing to remember about a challenge or any fight... it only has to be a fight to settle a matter... it doesn't have to be to the death........

Lemuel~~~ ~smiles at Phen~ I don't remember, but he did claim to be first sword of his house.

Shadowglade~~~ Be that as it may...would not say, a peasant defending His property still face a Warrior, should that disagreement occur? and would not less be thought of the peasant if He backed down? I think He would be less respected...that on Gor, and at least in My experience of online Gor, if One does not stand up for Himself, that one loses respect of those around Him, and becomes a laughing stock...*shrugs* I have seen it happen, and it's not pretty...
I would even go so far as to say that I have lost respect if One defers to Another in such a case....*shrugs* without any other kind of agreement being made.....

shadow{HoS}~~~ shadow giggles softly as she hears Master Kyoto's words...

Phen~~~ Online is different from the books in this matter I feel. If one challenges another online then it is for a reason, whether or not that reason is justified will have to be accepted by the person issuing the challenge. Obviously if the relationship bewteen the two has reached this stage something has to be worked out or it will continue to simmer and boil and thus make it unpleasant for those interacting with them.

shadow{HoS}~~~ shadow listens to her Master's words and smiles, soaking His thoughts up *s*

Lemuel~~~ ~nods at Shadowglade's comments~ True, but what is important to you may not be important to me. If the dispute had to do with my property, my Home Stone, or my family, I would defend it. Other matters I might not accept a challenge.

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding to Lemeul* That is respectable....but as Phen said, online, things are different, and in such a case, if I had some problem with You for example, Lemuel, or You had some problem with Me, What in Your mind would be the best way to handle it?

Phen~~~ Shadow what You are saying is true so now maybe it is up to the Council to discuss and work out more rules and protocols for covering a situation such as this...

Lemuel~~~ ~smiles~ As I am not a Warrior, I doubt that I would challenge, especially since you would get choice of weapons ~grins~ I guess I would try to talk it out or ask one of the Captains to act as Judge in the matter.

Shadowglade~~~ *sighing as I nod to the Healer* Aye...that is perhaps true Phen...

Lemuel~~~ ...Perhaps we could gamble to settle the outcome?

Shadowglade~~~ *chuckle* that perhaps would work...*grin* depending on the issue...*chuckle*

Lemuel~~~ ~nods~ Exactly

Shadowglade~~~ Well, I for one think that any challenge refused is an opportunity lost....One can gain much respect by standing up for oneself, to Any that would challenge..and let's face it folks....respect on online Gor is the only way to keep track of One's status if that is what One is interested in...

Rollo the Ax~~~ The idea of trained warriors using their ability against an untrained person is not only uncalled for, but would seem to be at odds with the code of defending those weaker or in need.... so it could be seen as at odds with each other... one side says * TAKE WHAT YOU WANT, IF YOU ARE STRONG ENOUGH * the other side says * DEFEND THE WEAK AND THOSE IN YOUR CARE * ????? too often ego or bluster are mistaken for strength or honor....

Phen~~~ Shadow I am not sure I understand what You are meaning so it is just an Honour challenge and not a death match? If it is just an honour one why not just ask the other for a spar or better still teach the other how to use a weapon

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at the Warrior's words~ True...

Dark Dragon~~~ aye well put Captain !

Kyoto~~~ I suppose it depends on the person Rollo, in the books there were Warriors who followed both codes, it was the one who stood up for those in need that were the most respected, however

Gornt~~~ current events seem to bear that out, Rollo

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to Shadowglade~ ...But is there honor in challenging One you know to be less skilled than yourself?

Kyoto~~~ No Lem, that would not be honorable, the warrior would be no better than an assassin then

Rollo the Ax~~~ Shadowglade you are right in that each and every person answers for their OWN actions and words...challenge or not, everything else a side..... stand up for your own ideas and thoughts, or never ask anybody to listen to what you say ever again...

Shadowglade~~~ that is a good question Lemuel...and I would say, no....unless said person presumed to besmirch My honor in the first place...what is to be done? and I look to the other Warriors here for that answer? should a Warrior insulted by One who is not a Warrior merely laugh at them? or stand up for His honor in the only way He knows how?

Lemuel~~~ ~nods to Kyoto~ So, if the dispute is between a Warrior and One of a different caste, then the honorable thing to do would be to work it out without a challenge, no?

Lemuel~~~ ~hearing Shadowglade's words~ Anyone foolish enough to insult a Warrior deserves what he gets IMO.

Kyoto~~~ If the one who is challenged is not able to fight on the scale of the warrior, then a different way of settling it should be come up with

Phen~~~ You would have to stand up to them but how I do not know... Shadow what affected your personal Honour may not be the same for another and a word to one stating that this has indeed happened may make a differance. Or one has to then take it to the ruling body of that site*smiles*...

Rollo the Ax~~~ Well folks.... the set time for the forum is up.... Thank you all for coming and taking part..... same time,same place, next week... but I will not be here, I have an appointment that I have to attend... Bolt or somebody else will handle the forum.....

calia{Sabre}~~~ soft words stream from calias lips~* thank You Master Rollo for heading up this informative forum for which one can attend and learn *her eyes remain low*

Gornt~~~ thank You for allowing Me to sit in, it was most illuminating

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding as the Captain wraps up the forum~
My thanks for another interesting forum, Captain.

Dark Dragon~~~ yes, the forum has been a place to learn much about Gor, I continue to lean much from them

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