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RT.. VT.. how far to go?

The Tavern Tattler



RT.. VT.. how far to go?
Is there a limit?

Rollo the Ax~~~ Welcome all to another edition of the GS forum..... same rules as always, keep the greetings and cross talk to whispers to make it easier for those keeping the records, everybody is welcome to voice an opinion, slaves just need to keep it respectful....

Rollo the Ax~~~ Tonight, we will start with a topic that may well have several ppl giving VERY different opinions or feelings, but one that needs spoken of none the less.... ** WHY do so many ppl feel or think that they need to bring VT Gor to their RT lives ???? And how can this be done( or NOT be done ) for many folks here ????

shadow{HoS}~~~ shadow listens to the topic, her brow raises as she thinks well upon this one..

Phen~~~ So Rollo are You meaning in meeting with people that you know online or relationships? Or the whole kit and caboodle?

galah{RA}~~~ seems everyone looks for something different in this online world....some seek a rt relationship while others certainly do not, but when one that does meets one that doesn't...seems it can be a hard experience to deal with?

SABREWOLF~~~ seems to Me we each seek somethnig different, and have different limits We should set when it comes to crossing the v/t-r/t line

Rollo the Ax~~~ Folks, let Me premise this topic with a couple of ideas or thoughts.... On-line, this vast net of computer paths, is still something of a new developement in the human condition.... and has given SOO many ppl the ability to meet and get to know ppl they would NEVER have done so before.... I guess that part of the question could then be, the WHY and because of some ppl coming on-line, and specificlly to Gor ????

galah{RA}~~~ something like an unhappy but married slave, she does not have the Master/slave relationship in rt and craves it sooo badly that she wishes to take her vt relationship to rt....when a slave just doesn't wish it to be Master/slave in GS only, but her submission to Him goes much deeper till she wants it to cross the line of rt...this one thinks this commonly happens for a slave can't control that submission

Rollo the Ax~~~ Phen, I mean the WHOLE shooting match.... ANY and ALL phases of VT ....... and RT.......

SABREWOLF~~~ I care to learn of a slave's belly,,and to better learn to handle the r/t one I got,,I stayed because I developed excellent V/T Friends and enjoy Yall's company,,and I still learn,,

Rollo the Ax~~~ But also, galah, there are cases of the same, from the Masters point also.... men looking for * something more * than they get at home or in RT ... it is not just a * slave * thing......

calia{GS}~~~ calia smiles and agrees with galah ~* the curiousity brews within one who doesn't have it in R/t ...seeks and finds such online ~* prior limits then sway calia believes ..as people find what they desire.....

shadow{HoS}~~~ shadow herself does seek a rt Master to serve, and shadow will even say that she has met several from vt and has a strong affection for those she meets, why would she do this, well shadow lives in Oklahoma in rt, ~L~ the bible belt~L~ the whole BDSM life is rather small here. shadow has come to realize that be it vt or rt one can not hide who they are *shrugs*

galah{RA}~~~ this could also be vice versa....a Master can be sooo taken with his vt love slave that He wants her, for to have a girl that gives Him his every wish is sooo rare, for surely the lil wife at home don't always submit in such a way...such things can cause a big ruffle in a normally stable marriage

Kayla~~~ Well I found Love here and brought it Home to stay ~smiles~... but the whole Gorean experience (or as much as possible on earth) would not appeal to Me *S*... I like what I have Thank You very much ~smiles~

shadow{HoS}~~~ shadow does not feel that Gor can be totally adopted into one's rt fully mostly due to the legalities of it all but shadow also feels that many of the gorean values can be, and if so where is the harm in that? *giggles*

Rollo the Ax~~~ Folks, even those that ARE happily married, or in good, strong, RT relationships can find positive things here in on-line Gor..... And when they do, it is even better...

talender{GS}~~~ sometimes the vt world gives a woman a place to further explore herself in a safe environment.
though it can be hard to keep feeling strictly vt if you meet One who truly touches a part of You that only He can find.
it is important from the start to set boundries and let Masters know just what your limits are and what your looking for , this saves alot of hassles and headaches later.

Phen~~~ *Hearing the Captains words I ponder the question and then begin to speak* Well for Me I just fell into Gor loved the roleplay and used to go around telling both Pagan and thyri who used to be Shield Maiden back then not to mix VT with RT so what happens along comes Bolt and tips Phen's world upside down...So in saying this I found it hard to keep My VT character from forming friendships with ppl online but to Me that is all it is...When I met Bolt RT we were all ready friends and that was the worst thing that could happen to us is that I would walk away with a very good friend and meet The Captain over there and galah as well...An opportunity I could not resist*SS*

galah{RA}~~~ see shadow, that is a good example of what we speak of and how all are different....for this one in NO way seeks an rt Master...but now how does a Master online sort out who is looking for what?

SABREWOLF~~~ what of folks who'll play with another,only to achieve their lustfilled deisres,,and find out,,it's not what they want,,full time,,essentially destroying a good relationship?...or,,how far should you let a v/t relationship go into the r/t?

calia{GS}~~~ calia is happily married ~* and her spouse allows the outreach ~* Gor evenings and such with Friends Who nearby participate ....makes a girl's marriage realllllly strong and happy ...~shrugging~

Kayla~~~ Sabre in friendships I would say no limits ~smiles~ otherwise caution ~giggling at Myself~ but seriously it should be taken very cautiously *S*

Rollo the Ax~~~ That is a good point, shadow, and one that WAY too many * Goreans* get carried away with, I think,.... They want to be Gorean SOOOO much, they can't understand that in RT, many concessions must be made.... To Me, the idea is to be * AS * Gorean as one can be in RT, while staying within the bounds of RT law and society......

galah{RA}~~~ we have many in GS that have turned their vt into rt, and they are all very happy, as far as this one knows heheheheheheee but what about the rest? as tal said, be good to set those limits right from the start, but that don't always happen and then their are those that end up terribly hurt

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Agreeing with Rollo* It was my r/t g/f that brought ME to Gor, and I feel that it has made us closer because it is both something that We love doing

talender{GS}~~~ galah i think a smart Master will ask right out what a slave is seeking. so if He is seeking rt and she is not then He knows not to go any further with her in that direction.

Lemuel~~~ ~listening to all the good points being made~
From my own perspective, I sometimes regret that I did not discover the online Gorean community sooner, but I can not change the past. I enjoy discussions with others who share a common interest and would not meeting many of the people I have met online.

shadow{HoS}~~~ shadow purrrrrrrrs as she looks to galah, let the great debate between us begin *tehe* but in answer to girl's question, shadow feels a Master would know Himself what it is He seeks just as a slave would *s*, in fact even though shadow searches for this it takes her forever to allow any from vt to step into her rt, shadow is extremely cautious and has a strong sense of charactor.

shadow{HoS}~~~ shadow would have to save that her slavery is rarely about lust *s* not that she don't feel it but she seeks completion more than lust *s*

galah{RA}~~~ yes calia, gor also strengthened this one's relationship with her rt....and from one that's been faithful in rt for a very long time, this "outreach" lets a girl be something she couldn't/wouldn't be in rt...for those that know galah in vt....the real girl behind the screen is most shy and won't even speak to ppl she don't know hehehehehehee

Rollo the Ax~~~ Folks, from what I am reading it seems that everybody can see just how well, or how badly, combining VT and RT can end up.... My thought is that the BEST way to have BOTH work out and not become a problem, is to simply BE HONEST !!!! don't * play * with anothers feelings by telling them what you think they want to know.... tell the TRUTH ....

Kayla~~~ ~smiling at the girl's words~

galah{RA}~~~ if sooo many make it clear from the start tal, then why do so many get hurt? how many slaves here could say they have never cried rt over something in vt?

calia{GS}~~~ ~*smiling to galah~* ...calia savors and treasures the gift of her "outreach" ~* ...done honestly and openly, calia wishes no Oone she comes in contact with feels mislead by this honest slave *s*

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at galah's words~ I too find it easier to speak with others online than in RT.

shadow{HoS}~~~ with all due respect a rt relationship can end just a badly as a vt, shadow married a man at the age of 19, she knew this Man for most of her life, always kind, caring and so on, after she Married Him that Jack Ass beat her often and tried to kill her *shudders* be it rt or vt one never really knows anouther until ya live with them ~L~

Raven_m~~~ If I may......being a relative Newcomer to Gor....with still very much to learn. Most have very valid points and very valid issues. I came to Gor out of curiosity....not sure what I was seeking....if anything, but along the way I have made a few friends vt. Gor offers One an opprtunity to seek a release from the daily stress...to seek friendship and companionship....to seek a fulfillment of some inner fantasy.....

talender{GS}~~~ galah most don't make it clear from the start, it usually takes sitting at your computer crying to make you realize from now on you better be up front about it so you can avoid that heartache.

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Nodding at the Captain's words* Aye Rollo..but sometimes that doesn't happen...

galah{RA}~~~ for those that have known galah a long time, they know she never lasted in a Master's collar, that full submitting to One was just to hard for her, cause her heart was already taken by her rt....she just couldn't give her all to One VT as it should be so always begged to be released after a short time...a girl had a lot of soul searching to do to come to that conclusion....so the separating of rt and vt is not always easily done

SABREWOLF~~~ in the r/t I'm quite happy,,I've nothing against meeting ""friends",,but I'm not looking for a r/t lover,,Gor,,is different,,here I can roleplay a Great Gorean Master with as many slaves as I want,,and learn something from each,,but it is just that,,fantasy,,

Phen~~~ *Nods* Yes Captain I think once again your words ring true...Honesty at all times and at times it is hard but what an experiance to learn from in RT...I think I was the most honest I have ever been in my life when I first began speaking with Bolt and it was this VT world that allowed me to do that too...In a way I was letting down all types of walls but on the other hand was safe behind a screen...

Raven_m~~~ Relationships and friendships develop over time...and sometimes the vt turns to rt.....either intentional or unintentional.

Rollo the Ax~~~ CD, that is the sort of thing that shows how positive such a VT life can be...... I am glad to hear it...... But truthfully folks.....How many times have we heard or been told of the bad cases ????? the kajira that thinks she has found * MR Right * or Master Right, only to find that the guy is either a drop kick, HNG, or worse, a monster in RT ????????? how many have ruined RT relationships to go and * be with * their VT Master only to find that the guy is NOT the same person in RT that he seems to be in VT ?????

SABREWOLF~~~ I agree Raven,,

calia{GS}~~~ the creative freedom to learn and grow in Gor ~* the desire to serve and please for this slave,
belonging to One v/t ... this girl not searching for a r/t relationship ~* but for Tthose that have found it ..calia thinks are very blessed....

Raven_m~~~ What is utmost important in any relationship, is that the people involved must be honest with each other....and with themselves within....to avoid possible heartaches and sorrows.....

galah{RA}~~~ galah soooooooooo agrees with you Master Raven, for being soooooooo new, You are most wise!!!!

Raven_m~~~ Without the honesty, One is not only fooling the person they are developing the relationship with.......but also themselves.

calia{GS}~~~ *~smiling toward Master Raven*~ as calia listens

talender{GS}~~~ ~smiles agreeing with Master Raven~

Phen~~~ Yes Rollo but negatives always seem more dramatic than positives...Maybe a page on VT and RT and some dot points can be placed on the Homepage...

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ Aye Raven...Very True...Honesty is what should come first...

SABREWOLF~~~ even with the intent of "roleplay"only,,I know We can still hurt each other in the r/t,,and it r/t hurts too,,smile

Raven_m~~~ but the key here is very important........honesty. If both parties are honest........and as the relationship grows....then both will fully understand where the other is coming from......and as a result.....they both will be working as one towards a common ground......be it limited to vt......or taken steps further into r/t. And with honesty........both will be happy. But without that honesty......comes sorrow and heartache

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Phen's earlier comment~

galah{RA}~~~ it makes one wonder how something vt or roleplay could possibly hurt? it does though, we give so much of ourselves, this one knows to be found displeasing vt hurts real bad rt, to be whipped online, now how could that possibly hurt? but this one can guarantee, if one is truly a slave, it hurts alot, can tear a girl up and she cries rt tears

shadow{HoS}~~~ ok shadow agrees with Master Raven but even in rt Honesty seems to be a joke that rolls off the lips of the wicked ~L~

galah{RA}~~~ aaaawwwwwwww Master SabreWolf, how can a girl be out of character, for she is always a character hehehehehehehee heheheheheheee

calia{GS}~~~ with a girls endearing heart she nods ~* anything that happens to one online ~ should carry a true slave heart,slave belly...one carries the emotions and experiences into her r/t ...
thinking of calias slave rape.....

galah{RA}~~~ oooooohh soooooooo true shadow, so very true....seems some think of this as some game to see how many they can take down

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Sabre's words~

Asellus~~~ Of course, honesty is all dependent on the intentions of the parties involved. Some may not take what happens online as seriously. Sensitivity is required on both parts so that not everything gets so blown out of unrecognizable proportion. Like I said though, there are people out there who are ill-meaning.

talender{GS}~~~ ~listens to the various opinions~

Raven_m~~~ so true shadow.....Honesty is a goal.....which can often be manipulated...twisted....or like you say....a joke. But it is a starting point.....something that one must strive for. It is not perfect.....but it is a beginning......

Kayla~~~ *s* That is sometimes very true shadow....

Rollo the Ax~~~ One thing that I can say I have noted, is that most ppl show more of their RT self or personality the longer they stay around on-line..... Hey, anybody can make mistakes when new or first here....but those that stay, and keep coming back begin to show the * inner * self..... be it a loud mouth, short temper, submissive nature, or just plain being a bastard.... as with most times in life, TIME will tell the truth.....

SABREWOLF~~~ poor sabreen's been put through a lot cause of v/t,,and she don't even roleplay,,I've been mad,hurt,cussed,fussed,,poor girl,,

SABREWOLF~~~ Anyone I know Captain??,laughs,,

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ Aye Rollo...It is TIME that brings out the Truth in most..Although some You can tell their intentions from the beginning whether it be an HNG, or whatever...

galah{RA}~~~ oooohhh yes Master SabreWolf, often the hurts of vt are carried over, this one's Master has often kissed away a girls tears when something that has happened online has hurt her sooooo....but also she hears His grumbles of anger and such when something happens online that displeases him

Raven_m~~~ I agree Rollo,,,over time One's inner self tends to rise to the top......becomes more visible to others....

talender{GS}~~~ guess tal's RT Mate is lucky then, He rarely has to deal with the hurt or anger brought to this one from Someone vt..

shadow{HoS}~~~ shadow's children have sat here and watched their mommy laff like there's no tomarrow, and they have seen their mom shed many tears, but never have they seen there mom run from anything, shadow loves Gor, even if it's all an illusion to many *s*

Kayla~~~ That's when it is nice to have someone close that understands the way we feel Online... ~smiles~...

SABREWOLF~~~ looks to tal,raising an eyebrow

nicnac{DD}FG~~~ ~nodding in agreement with galah~..this one has cried and ranted and screamed in r/t over things that have taken place online, no one can keep T/their true selves from coming thru online, it may just start as a glimpse but sooner or later Y/you reveal what Y/you really are

galah{RA}~~~ well, Master and this one said we would keep vt and rt separate, that don't always work, like this one said, when he finds this one crying and such, then we said we would never meet anyone from vt in rt, well that didn't work either heheheheheheheee best laid plans of mice and Men hehehehehehehee

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at the many comments~
Sometimes the hurt that is caused is unintentional. It is sometimes hard to put into words what is truly meant.

Raven_m~~~ shadow......Gor is not an illlusion.....true, it is a place where one can escape from reality....where one can live out their inner inhabitions......but along the way, many do make friends......and from that friendship, relationships may develop......and both the friendship.....and relationship if there is one.......is reality.....not an illusion. Gor is what each individual that comes here.....makes it. That is what Gor is for each.....what they make it.

Rollo the Ax~~~ Also, folks, lets not forget that time changes everybody also..... Not only our bodies.... Rollo is not the young guy that fought, or worked, or even loved like He did 20-30 yrs ago.... when young, I had a VERY bad temper, and often fought over trivial matters or for no good reason.... I have learned over the yrs to temper anger with judgement... also to accept that others don't always see things the same way that I do......it may sound funny or trite, but that simple lesson has made HUGE changes in life...

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Smiling at galah's words* Aye..I am excited about meeting some of the people from GS..When the South has their lil' get together...*S*

SABREWOLF~~~ I think it could boil down to Us trying to make Gor as fast as r/t,,and it's not,,it's a slower paced world,,and We would all be better if We learned to go a lil slower while we're here,,

shadow{HoS}~~~ shadow did not say that she thought that Gor was an illusion Master Raven *s*

Phen~~~ *Laughs as I hear galah's words* That same Bolt out of the blue aye girl....

Raven_m~~~ ,,,then I apologize shadow.....for misinterpreting what you said

DarkDragon~~~ I think that's pretty much true of life in general Raven !

Asellus~~~ Definitely true, Sabre! *nodding vigorously*

nicnac{DD}FG~~~ ~giggles~...hmmm slow Master Sabrewolf....then with the length of serves the Master would be waiting for hours for a drink

calia{GS}~~~ ~*squirming on her heels hearing Master Dursts words~* calia smile....this girl tooo

shadow{HoS}~~~ tis ok Master Raven, shadow just didn't want to leave You with the wrong impression *s*

Raven_m~~~ exactly Dark Dragon.......Gor is an extension of life.....and it should be treated as such.

galah{RA}~~~ yes Mistress Phen, that was the start of it all heheheheheheheheee...then the gor meet....but a girl does advise caution always, this one and her Master met Master Bolt the first time in a public place, just in case he was a weirdo heheheheheheheheheheheee

Rollo the Ax~~~ Folks, for those that are in relationships already, come to Gor is a thing that MUST be accepted by the other half.... or it will soon become a problem in RT.. I've seen it happen WAY too many times.... a man that doesn't tell his wife or girlfriend that he is * playing * Master here, then she finds out and all hell breaks loose, or for a woman to come and be slave, when her hubby doesn't know or understand..... once again, no truth, NO CHANCE.....

Kayla~~~ LOL..Good thing to do galah ~winking at Phen~

Raven_m~~~ ,,,I believe that what you said is that many view Gor as an illusion.....and I understand.....not specifically you per say......
,,,but Gor is much more than just an illusion.....as I tried to point out

SABREWOLF~~~ I wana hold the r/t meeting as bad as Anyone in this room,,grin,,setting limits for it is a good start

talender{GS}~~~ that is always good advice for people to follow.. if your going to meet someone from vt for the first time in rt do it in a public place. you never know you could be meeting Ted Bundy or the likes

Asellus~~~ I could never have hid Gor from Ceredigawn! *Chuckling* I just had to drag Him in here the first chance I got!

SABREWOLF~~~ Rollo,,how can We help them to tell their r/t hubby's and wives ?,,should we encourage it?..

Asellus~~~ ....Hmmm...but of course, He may have felt different about it if I were, say, a slave....*glancing at Him out of the corner of Her eye*

nicnac{DD}FG~~~ ~looking to Master Rollo she inhales sharpley, then lowers eyes~
some of U/us have ways of being here without T/their spouses being the wiser and for myself it's best that way

shadow{HoS}~~~ hummmm shadow would believe that it would be the wise to do the same when meeting a rt person in rt for the first time *s*

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Smiling at His Ladies words* Thank You!

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to Sabre~ In my own case, my wife knew nothing of Gor. It is only recently that I have tried to introduce her to it.

serena{B}~~~ nodding in agreement with talender,
point well taken..most of us base our trust on what we read on a screen....or hear in a voice over a phone..
if One is not truthful...it could be a real heartache when meeting in rt..not to say very dangerous..

Dark Dragon~~~ I've never kept secrets about anything I do online from my wife, she doesn't always approve, and I know about it, but we still do share a lot of what goes on here !

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Hearing His Ladies words again, wicked grin.* Wouldn't have made much difference..*L*

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL..LOL.. Not that Rollo is all that * mellow * now either....LOL.. being a husband, and friend of one that has been hurt many times here, there is still the time or two I could have quite cheerfully reached thru the screen, and choked the living shit out of some ppl..... if I could have done so..... LOL.. even old dogs still have teeth.... a few.....LOL.

SABREWOLF~~~ how'd she take it Lem?..grins,,need to borrow a collar?,,(only joking)

Raven_m~~~ serena..........so very true......and again.......One cannot emphasize how important honesty is ......

Phen~~~ *Laughs* Yes and I also asked both you and Rollo what He was like RT before I took that leap and met Him too...and see how much I trusted your words...Met Him at 3.40am on a train station in a one car town*shaking My head*

calia{GS}~~~ ~*calia listens to Master Lemuels words~*
the same for calia,two years back and her Mate decided tiz not for Him ,but because of the honesty allows calia to grow and learn ..and experience Gor...

Asellus~~~ Heh. *She grins, biting Her tongue beneath Her veils*
*Then laughing aloud at Rollo's words*

Dark Dragon~~~ *chuckling* @ the Senior Captain's words !

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling at Sabre's words~ She still doesn't fully understand and I'm not sure that she is even interested. I have told her that I am chatting and have offered her the books to read.

serena{B}~~~ Master Raven..serena totally agrees...
We all at one time or another may have been guilty of a white lie or two..
BUT...this one always tries to be as honest as she can..especially when it comes to matters of the heart..*s*

shadow{HoS}~~~ shadow giggles as she knows many times she would have opened a can of whoop ass herself if she could ~L~

talender{GS}~~~ i don't lie to my Husband about my online life either.. to be honest i'm only on gor because He allows it.. He allows me to take a vt collar and He's even grown fond of Some of the friends i've made and a Master i've had.. and on the rare occassion He sees my pain or anger from online He's even come onlne to try and help fix things..

Phen~~~ Sabre I know some whose Husbands would think that the woman is being unfaithful to Him whether they are a slave or free...

SABREWOLF~~~ better than her taking one of them swords Ya got and going postal,,laughs with Lem,,I think hiding things like this that affect Us so much could cause something like that

Rollo the Ax~~~ Raven, Asellus, nicnac..... Don't take My words wrong... I don't really condemn anybody for doing whatever they choose to for what ever reasons..... I just feel that in the end, to be honest...either up front or after a while, is the best policy......

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ You are not the only one who would have liked to choke a few people...I know that a few have angered Me...

nicnac{DD}FG~~~ ~sighs~..what can nic say, my r/t travels all the time, a girl gets lonely in the house by herself so she is slave, when her r/t is home she turns this off and devotes her time to Him

Asellus~~~ Ohhh, not at all, Rollo! *sincere smiles, eyes twinkling*

SABREWOLF~~~ Phen,,it's seem to Me if they valued their relationship with Him/Her,,they'd be honest and talk about it,,then set limits,,or they got or for sure gonna have worse problems than roleplay,,

Dark Dragon~~~ fortunately, I'm not a grand warrior, or I might be in the pits frequently !

Raven_m~~~ serena....then you are very special
....for a heart is a very delicate thing.....and although it can withstand enormous punishment....most times that punishment is not necessary......

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Sabre~ Yes, I have known couples torn apart because of a vt relationship one had without the other's knowledge. It is a sad thing and is not something I would wish on anyone. Honesty is definately the best policy

Dark Dragon~~~ I would never judge another, for their reasons for being honest or not

talender{GS}~~~ ~nods agreeing with Master SabreWolf~

Raven_m~~~ I think most can agree......that Honesty is the key.......

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ I think that as well, and is the BEST way...*S*

Phen~~~ Sabre I understand what you are saying completely as it brings up a whole heap of issues and problems and that it comes back to being honesty and trust....But how do You tell a Man,Your Husband that You want to be a slave online, if He has no idea what Gor is and is a Man RT not just male?

sassynsweet~~~ this one's hubby would have her committed and since things are not good at home anyhow ... he would love to try it ...grins softly as she agrees with Mistress Phen

talender{GS}~~~ Master Dark i don't judge anyone either, we must each do what we feel is best for us. but i'd have to ask myself if coming online was worth risking my marriage over..

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ Not sure waht Phen is getting at...What do You mean?

serena{B}~~~ ~nodding her head~ aye Master Raven...serena knows about heartache..*s*..and she knows right from wrong...and has been hurt before..Tis why she always tries to be as honest and upfront as possible..even if things don't work out right..she knows she did what was best..
as far as being truthful with an r/t over a *hidden v/t*..
all she can add is only the people involved truly know what is right in their situation..
and is it really up to One to insist that they come clean to their spouses?

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Phen~ Or how do you tell your wife that you wish to own an online slave? When she knows next to nothing about Gor?

Rollo the Ax~~~ And to be totally blunt and honest folks, it is by FAR more likely that it will be the man in one of these VT relationships that will be the one lying or not telling the whole truth.... so women.... Free OR slave, should be VERY carefull ...... go slow and get to KNOW any Master well enough before jumping into his collar....

SABREWOLF~~~ if he's a Man,,not a male,,then he'll set the limits for his household,,not just for chat or roleplay,,and if he care'd,,he'd control his woman,,

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ Rollo has an excellent point..*nodding*

Dark Dragon~~~ I will say, honesty is the best policy, but for some, if they lived their lives the way others thought they should, they would have no life !

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~lifting eyes up.. listening.. glancing at Master Lemuel.. ~

talender{GS}~~~ Mistress Phen i am married to a real Man as any who have met Him online can tell You and i was honest right from the get go when i discovered bdsm then gor that i wanted to be a sub/slave online.. He had no clue what either were but let me go ahead and now He benefits from all that i've learned about myself fro the experiences.

Asellus~~~ What? That a Man would be more apt to lie to His wife about such activities online?

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ Got it...*Hearing Sabre speak.* Well if He is a MAN then He might enjoy Gor...

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at my Caste Brother, DD's words~

SABREWOLF~~~ he might My Friend,,or like tal said,,enjoy the benefits the girls learn for online gor,,just cause He don't wanna roleplay don't mean he wouldn't enjoy a girl at his feet removing his boots at the end of the day

Kayla~~~ ~laughing at Asellus~

Lemuel~~~ ~winking at jasma~

Phen~~~ Aye Lemuel and they then are coming from the concepts of the society in which they live if they have not read any of the books or do not see what is biologically right so to speak*SS*

Dark Dragon~~~ I personally think , that many that want to judge others on their choices, need to walk a few miles in their shoes then see if they still feel the same way !

Asellus~~~ I'm not about to start throwing any stones. *Laughing along with Kayla*

Rollo the Ax~~~ Maybe My point was not clear.... what I meant was that most often, it is men that come on-line, hiding either their true selves, or hiding their activities from their wives or family.....

Asellus~~~ I think the women could be just as bad....

Phen~~~ *Laughs* I thought You would CD...

SABREWOLF~~~ if only all Women in the world were like the one's we have gathered here in this room,,,the world would be a much better place

serena{B}~~~ *fully understanding Master Rollo's words..*

shadow{HoS}~~~ shaking her head softly as she giggles just picturing Masters Rollo's face turning red ~L~

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Eyes toward Asellus* Really? just kidding...*L*

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Phens's words~ Exactly! There is such a stigma to slavery in general in RT society and women are taught to be independent these days.

Kayla~~~ Why thank You Sabre ~smiling~

Asellus~~~ *Emitting a Hmph! at Ceredigawn* *L*

serena{B}~~~ *giggling @ Master Sabre Wolfs' words...
all honesty and no untruths...
(something to think about...)
hehehe

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ Aye Sabre...I know that I am a lucky Guy...

galah{RA}~~~ well, all this one can say about the secrecy of hiding their gorean life from an rt, is that is only the start of hiding most anything else tooo and don't make for a very stable marriage in this one's opinion, this one can hide nothing from her Master, he sees it in her eyes...again, this one always says, honesty is the best policy

Rollo the Ax~~~ Folks.. Nobody can make a silk purse out of a tarsk's ear.... Ppl come here, and find their true selves.... FW that are truly slaves, find out sooner or later... some slaves find that they are TRULY slave.... and some men find that they are not really Masters ..... but EVERYBODY learns something from being here......

talender{GS}~~~ Master Dark i don't think is true.. i'm not judging anyone.. i just learned the hard way from having an affair rt that it's alot easier just to be honest with my RT Man and say hey i want to do this or i need this because i'm lonely, bored or whatever.. then beg like hell to get it, of course it took online to teach me how to beg and not demand

Phen~~~ *Smiles to Sabre's words* Thank You My Friend and if the Men were as is gathered in this room what a great world to live in*smiles*

Raven_m~~~ Rollo, I think it is fairly evenly divided,,,between men and women. And I think it very difficult for most, to not draw a line between life here on Gor,,,,and life at home. One may find it very difficult to be honest with a spouse,,,, to tell a spouse that they have certain inhibitions....most often because their marriage sucks. Yet when they come here to Gor....they may look at it as another chance.....to do things for themselves.....to let loose their inhibitions......seek friendship.....companionship. So the line can be drawn between Gor life.....and r/t family life. One can be honest here.....yet for reasons of their own...not honest at home.

shadow{HoS}~~~ girl giggles even harder as Master Sabre racks up them there brownie points, sighingggggggg ohhhh shadow is so happy to be here this night *s*

serena{B}~~~ aye Master Rollo..but to find Your true self...One must be their true self...

Asellus~~~ But....doesn't hiding what you are doing online from your r/t spouse contradict the whole reason a slave would want to be online?? It was My understanding that slaves had no other choice than to be upfront with everything to the Free....unless to the person that is only the way the game is played online.....

Dark Dragon~~~ true, but all situations are different, so it's really hard to say what is exactly right for everyone , there are too many different personalities to say that only one way is right !!!

SabreWolf~~~ I just call um as I see um Yall,,grins,,

Raven_m~~~ so very true Dark Dragon
.......each individual must live to their own merit......look in their own mirror.....and live with their own inner self......

talender{GS}~~~ ~nods~ You are very right Master Dark

Dark Dragon~~~ that's it Raven !!

SABREWOLF~~~ dang Dark,,I resemble that statement,,grins,,but all 6 of Me get along,,laugh

Raven_m~~~ .,,,and each individual has their own reasons for coming here.......and their own path that they carve out.....with their own ideas of what they seek...... ,,,but if all come here with the same idea and principal of being Honest with one another.......then those people will all be the better for it......in spite of their differences......

calia{GS}~~~ ~*agreeing with Mistress Asellus....calia could never be anything but upfront and honest about what she does..as calia's Mate would see it in a girls eyes ....a girls actions...to truly be able to serve as one can ,from heart and complete being...honestly is needed she believes...*biting her bottom lip* ~ trying to keep quiet

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. Don't get Me started, Lemuel.....LOL... society says it is wrong for a woman to submit, but it IS okay for homosexuals to openly practice their lifestyle ???? Wrong to discipline a child to teach them values, but right to sue a parent for raising you * wrong * ?????? I am GLAD I am an old man.....

calia{GS}~~~ ~* laughter peels from calias lips hearing Master Sabrewolf's words....

Dark Dragon~~~ I think its most important to be honest with thy own self !

galah{RA}~~~ heheheheheheheeeeee **laughs at her Master's statement**

Asellus~~~ ~*Whew!*~ *breathing a sigh as Rollo brings up further examples to expound on*

Dark Dragon~~~ I'm with you Rollo !

galah{RA}~~~ this one personally thinks the feminist screwed up a good thing heheheheheheheee heheheheheheheeee

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding and chuckling at the Senior Captain's words~ I know what you mean, I could go on and on about today's twisted values ~grins~

talender{GS}~~~ personally this one enjoys seeing 2 gay men openly express thier lifestyle ~chuckling hard~

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening to Master Rollo.. shaking her head up and down as He speaks of society saying it's wrong to discipline a child to teach them.. ~
~winking at Master Lemuel~

shadow{HoS}~~~ shadow smiles brightly as she hears Master Rollo's words...

serena{B}~~~ ~opening laughing...at Master Rollo's statement...
and what exactly is *society*...but a group of pompous people who have nothing better to do but sit around and discuss what THEY THINK should be the right or wrong way to do things..*l*

Ceredigawn Durst ~~~ The Young Master sits and listens to the Old Guys, hoping I never have to deal with that....*L*

SABREWOLF~~~ that's part the reasons I homeschool My kids,,

Dark Dragon~~~ the key for everyone is tolerance of your fellow man

Phen~~~ *Definately staying out of this one now laughing*

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to Phen~ Sure you don't want to climb into this can of worms with us?

Kayla~~~ ~shaking My head~...

Raven_m~~~ This discussion has fostered many valid points,,,,and has given way to offering several avenues of approach,,,,and if anything, it has brought many here closer together. But the common ground of most......seems to point to one direction........and that is Honesty amongst the Goreans. If we all strive towards that same direction.....Gor can become a Utopia.......

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. well, perhaps the debate about just how screwed up society in general is, should wait for when we have more time......LOL..LOL...

Phen~~~ OK Lem what I can't understand is that if there are so many of Us that feel this way we do nothing about it how about a revolution haven't had one for a long time and it sounds as though change is needed

Dark Dragon~~~ Gor without wanting to kill???

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~chuckling at Master Rollo's words.. whispering~
a girl thinks that debate may take a few weeks to go through.. ~g~

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ Thinking Rollo might be right..I know I could say a lot...And Gor could never become a Utopia...You find that out after reading One of the books...

serena{B}~~~ thinking that debate could likely go on for days...
*giggling*

serena{B}~~~ Winking at jas' aye, at least a few all nighters at the very least *l*

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to Phen~ I've often wondered that myself. Seems the vocal minority lords it over the silent majority. Must be apathy. ~shaking head~

Rollo the Ax~~~ But tolerance, is a two edged sword, DD ....... and BOTH sides have to find a * common ground * ..... it is not right for one side to demand EVERY concession, and not be willing to see the other sides concerns.....

galah{RA}~~~ perhaps we all come back to vt? that which we can do something about, we never gonna be able to do much about society rt heheheheheheheheee

Asellus~~~ And the whole thing about Gor becoming a Utopia...*shaking Her head*...no, couldn't happen. Perhaps You mean to say "ideal"...and by saying that You mean the Gor of the books, Raven??

Kayla~~~ ~smiling and nodding at galah~

serena{B}~~~ what it boils down to is everyone has a set amount of values...some higher then others..
it's up to yourself to live within that set...
some have a high level of tolerance...serena knows she does..she tolerates alot...will give most any the benefit of the doubt more then once..but if she is continually lied to or made to look like foolish, she does get mad..
One can only hope that by being honest with all, that eventually she may instill others to be honest with her..*shrugs*.

talender{GS}~~~ guess in America if you don't like how things are run then you can vote for someone who will change thingsor run for office yourself

Phen~~~ Or society the way it is set up diverts our attentions away to day to day things and not to look at the bigger picture...

Dark Dragon~~~ tolerant people accept that others think diferent than themselves, and accept that difference in friendship, My best friend in this whole world, and I disagree on mny things, but agree that we eachre entitled to feel the way we do, that's tolerance !

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. Phen... every revolt begins with an IDEA.... and grows.... while one man ( or woman, I guess..LOL.) can't change the world, they CAN make a difference.....

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ That is supposed to be how it works tal...However not always the case...

serena{B}~~~ Well said Master Dark Dragon...*s*

Dark Dragon~~~ Thanks serena

Raven_m~~~ Asellus.....perhaps I should not have upper-cased utopia.....knowing full well Gor cannot become Utopia....
,,,but if it's inhabitants and visitors make it a point of being honest with one another......forgetting r/t.....then that is most definitely a step in the right direction......

calia{GS}~~~ *~slave listens with a smile ~*

serena{B}~~~ We can all make a difference...by being honest with our selves and our vt/rt/partners first...
can't expect honesty if you dont give it *s*

Asellus~~~ Not in the nature of role-play, however, Raven. In the books, many had to resort to downright devious means. But, of course, when 2 people are speaking out of character, then that is when honesty should transpire. But we can't stop those who are ill-meaning from preying on others naivety. It's sad and as such we will not become perfect.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at the Captain's and Phen's words~ In America the people in power are bought and paid for by people or groups with a lot of money, so it's hard to change things.

talender{GS}~~~ true Master Durst, since i don't vote i don't bother to complain. i have no right to complain if i'm not willing to do anything to try and change how things are..
though i would make a darn good President ~laughing~

Phen~~~ Sorry RTI but as I said before maybe a page can be placed up on the homepage with maybe dot pointies in dealing with rt and vt....

Rollo the Ax~~~ We can see about something like that, Phen....

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The Tavern Tattler
complaints

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL.. Well folks..... our time has run out for tonight.... and while I am sure many will keep talking about the ideas brought up, I think that we will call the forum to a close..... one last little bit of information from galah before we close though.....

galah{RA}~~~ this one would like to add a statement about the Tavern Tattler, should there be complaints of any kind concerning the newspaper, then those complaints are to be sent and directed to the council, not any one person, as many ppl work on that newspaper, it's not fair for one to take the blame if something is not right or pleasing...the council should know each and every complaint so that they may judge if the paper is to stay in publication...thank you

Kayla~~~ complaints?... Why would anybody complain? ~concerned look~...

Rollo the Ax~~~ Aye, galah... if there is a glaring problem, then I want to know about it.... if it is simply a minor error or something gets left out by mistake, then it can be fixed in the next issue....... and should not be a big deal..

galah{RA}~~~ if this one has learned anything from doing the Tavern Tattler, it's that until one has done webwork, they have no idea of how much time and work it takes...until this time, this one never really appreciated a homepage

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening to her sis.. knowing the truth in her words.. ~

Rollo the Ax~~~ Thanks to everyone for taking part in the forum, and I look forward to seeing everyone again next week.....

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ Aye Captain...Very good forum...and Thanks...

SABREWOLF~~~ an excellent discussion Bro,,grins

Lemuel~~~ Another interesting forum Captain.

calia{GS}~~~ softly calia speaks..
thank You Master Rollo for this evenings discussion ~*
very enlightening for this slave...

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