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Protection collars/their purpose


Family on Gor

An announcement


The Caste System

Protection collars/their purpose

Rollo the Ax~~~ Well, folks, it is time for the GS forum to get started...... I want to welcome everybody here tonight.... remember to keep the cross talk to whispers, and greetings also ...... if anybody has a topic they wish discussed, whisper it to Me, and I will try to get to as many as we can tonight..... so saying, this forum begins now......

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. and just in case anyone here has been stuck in a cave for the past week or so, I want to present Bolt Sarakai, GS's newest Captain of the Council.... LOL

Rollo the Ax~~~ The first topic is protection collars..... Sabre, You want to kick this topic off ????

Bolt Sarakai~~~ ~Nods with a grin to Rollo and then looking to Sabre~

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ **claps lil hands excitedly to Masters anouncment as dark eyes gaze warmly to Master Captain Sarakai

SabreWolf~~~ sure,,,of what use are they?,,exactly what are they?,,what purpose do they serve in a Gorean roleplay environment?,,and why would anyone want to use one?

SabreWolf~~~ seems to cheapen the experience,,to Me,

shadow{HoS}p~~~ ohhhhhhhhh boyyyyyyy does shadow want to reply reply reply ~L~

Bolt Sarakai~~~ I thought the discussions we had a few weeks ago covered the use of the {GS}p kolar, in that if an unkolared slave entered the tavern they could be placed in this kolar until such time as they could be assesed by a Captain or Advisor, at which stage they would go into a training kolar...Should we do away with it?

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ perhaps as a go between during that time uncollared from one Master to the Next? to give a girl alil stability from being force collared at a place like GS?

whispers{EF}~~~ well whispers thinks that they are like the observtion kolars at the other sites, you can wear them and if you don't like it then You can leave, however it's just not the same as a real kolar whether it be a Tavern Kolar or Personal one

SabreWolf~~~ that's not a protection kolar,,as it were,,but a kolar to hold a girl until an Offical of this sight can replace it,,in the end,,she's still owned,,

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ seems to galah that in an ideal gorean situation, the protection collar would not be necessary, but in this not sooo always ideal situation, there are far to many HNG kind of Masters that will grab ahold of any uncollared slave they can, like notches on a belt, the more slaves they have the more gorean they are? NOT!!! heheheeeee

Rollo the Ax~~~ Bolt..... those collars where marked with a *p* to denote that the slave had been collared by a pledged patron, awaiting a Council member to fully collar the slave to GS.... so the *p* stands for Patron, not really protection...

SabreWolf~~~ an observation kolar,,or symbol,,is yet different again,,an observer don't participate,,but, observes,,,

Bolt Sarakai~~~ So shall we have to define cleary what a GS protection kolar is?

whispers{EF}~~~ still whispers thinks that if a slave just stated one is here to observe most Masters would not force them into a Kolar

Bolt Sarakai~~~ ~Nods to Rollo~ Ok, that makes sense

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ we always tell girls to take their time deciding before jumping into a collar, yet on gor there is no such thing as an uncollared slave, so even a protection collar affords the girl a collar instead of running about bare necked?

Shadowglade~~~ Of what use are they? Well Captain, they have many uses, for one, in a K/C zone, they give a slave the option of observing a particular site that may not have an observers kolar...what are they? simply put, they are to show that a particular slave has been given the ability to visit a site with the protection of a given Free to back them up. What use are they in a Gorean Roleplay environment? They make it possible for a slave to observe a new environment without having to fear for her safety. And Lastly, I would want to use one because I wish to make My home safe for a visiting slave, and in hopes of kolaring the girl Myself....
Is it not the ruling of Our own kolar that a girl may be put in a {GS}p kolar for the same reasons? only instead of offering the tavern's protection, One could choose to offer One's own....

SabreWolf~~~ I've never given a protection kolar,,if they please Me,,I kolar them,,I might protect a girl for a lil while while I'm present after I leave ,,she's own her own..

SabreWolf~~~ observation only,,once they offer a serve or interact,,it's no longer observation,,,it's participation,,and subject to all the rules

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ GS doesn't have the O collars for observation though....so how do they come to be here without finding a collar that they really don't wish?

whispers{EF}~~~ well galah when whispers has seen unkolared girls they usually tell Masters that they want to observe and they are left alone whispers has never seen a force kolaring since she has been in GS

Rollo the Ax~~~ There are many feelings about if and when protection collars should be used.....for Myself, if I offer MY protection to a slave, that SHOULD be enough.... let any person that doesn't believe so come and talk to Me..... but to some, as galah says, collars are only trophies to display.....* shaking My bald head *... and many a possible good slave has been lost due to such abuse.... protection collars have their use, if for no other reason than to thwart the actions of such abuse .......

Bolt Sarakai~~~ If a girl is placed in a protection kolar and interacts within the tavern, she must be able to be punished by the free present if she has done something wrong...A protection kolar should not allow slaves to get away with things they wouldn't normally be able to get away with

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Bolt's words~

SabreWolf ~~~ so,,SG,,if You're not here and a girl tells Me You're protecting her..I'm gonna accept that?(if she's unkolared?),,last one tried that ended up in steel just cause,,far as I'm concerned,,Your names on the girl,,You own her,,,just like any other slave,,a Person observing won't beg entrance to be recognized,,nor offer to serve or fur,,,in my opinion,,nor would a Free interact with ordering or roleplay,,

Asellus~~~ "trophies to display"? Hmmm....*echoing Rollo and thinking*
*nodding also to Bolt's words*

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ sure whispers, the Masters here are most patient and kind to let a girl watch and learn....but often these watchers are very new, they see that all girls wear collars, so be accepted here one would need a collar, so all to often galah has seen a girl take the first collar offered as a way to fit in, now that's the WRONG reason to take a Master's collar, they need training and they need a chance to find the Master right for them, that is why it's good for the tavern to get ahold of them first

Asellus~~~ The whole observing thing could also be viewed as "ghosting" or "lurking" though......I agree with Rollo, but I also hear what Sabre's saying....I would rather see something there...kind of like physical evidence.

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding to Bolt* indeed, that is true, but then wouldn't the Protector of the girl be for all intent's and purposes, her Master, and then also responsible for her actions, as any Master would be of His girl? And if this is so, then shouldn't the protected girl be treated as His property while in the protection of His kolar?

whispers{EF}~~~ yes galah perhaps that is one reason why they take the first piece of steel they see, however when a girl wants a protection collar, why does the patron just stick them in a gs(P) kolar, I know they are different but still it would save a lot of this new Kolar stuff with the lil p's here or there,

whispers{EF}~~~ then the Council could talk to them and see if they want to leave or stay

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ but wouldn't a girl be subject to punishment by the one giving her the protection collar, just as a girl that is privately owned? only punished by the One that owns her

shadow{HoS}p~~~ shadow thanks You Mistress,*s*
shadow was released from her only home this day, it has been in the works for a long time, because shadow is slave she has stuck it all out, it has been hard for all of those that shadow loves and all that loves shadow, now shadow wonders, no home no owner, as shadow sees it, a slave has to make one of the hardest choices of all, where to submit so she can grow and learn to become a pleasing slave, not to mention when confused she must once again find her belly. this could not happen if she does not have some form of protection.. there are so many gorean HomeStones in online gor, surely a slave must know what it is she wants fully before being snagged up *giggles*

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye Shadowglade what you say is true. But it is the right of the free to punish any slave that is errant, within reason and that punishment does not damage the slave in any way. I believe it sorts out the princesses from the true kajirae to take punishment from any free.

whispers{EF}~~~ if the girl wants a protection Kolar it should be a Gs protection Kolar not a personal One

SabreWolf~~~ this Captain gives them little choice in such matters,,runaways are dealt with swiftly and harshly,,

SabreWolf~~~ the Council owns all GS slaves,,that a tavern kolar,,if a girl wants protection she should beg one

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ the new {GS}p collar was just so a girl would be safe from HNG's in GS, as there is not always a Captain around to properly collar the girl....the Captains do indeed speak to the girl before putting a training collar on her, either that or many just don't even show up again, such is the way of a wandering new slave that hasn't yet found her slavebelly or doesn't know what she really wants whispers

Rollo the Ax~~~ The question then seems to boil down to * How can a new slave be allowed to see if they wish to call GS their home, without getting collared to the first * trophy hunter * to see her walk in ??????

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding at galah* indeed galah....and that only makes sense...*chuckle* the price of protection is also obedience to the protector, and submission to His will while under His protection....however online Gor nearly requires a slave and Master to be in agreement on whether she wishes to be owned...as that is the case, if a girl is unsure she wishes to be owned by One that she hardly knows, but is game to come to His home, and see...I think that should be allowable, and unquestioned....*shrugs*

whispers{EF}~~~ yes galah whispers knows what those kolars are, and what they are for, ~softly smiles~

Errand_Knight~~~ hopes throws a difference between an Errand and and errant slave
more seriously thinks that the notion of the GS rt personal protection is sounder ...for All who respect Gor and this place will protect a girl who comes to this place

SabreWolf~~~ an easy answer Rollo,,don't beg entrance,,don't offer to serve,,observation only,,how can We have both,,observation and particaption?,,it's not fair to anyone,,slave or free,

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ we find ourselves in a different situation from many homes, for we have earthens come here from upstairs....they come into GS and see the interaction and the first thing they say is "How do I get one of these for myself?"

Kayla~~~ ~turning to Bolt with a smile~ Agreed Captain, that is the way it should be, but Our policy is to post or cage the girl, and let their own Master punish them, is it not? ~warmest smile~

Bolt Sarakai~~~ That Rollo I feel is why we created the {GS}p kolar in the first place, they can come into the tavern, observe or interact and be under the Councils protection, if they wish to stay then they will. Generally if one finds an experienced unkolared slave then that slave will know what she wants, a Master or a Taverns kolar.

Shadowglade~~~ I agree Captain *nodding at Bolt* However, if it's good for the tavern, why can it not be good for the patrons as well?

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ galah don't much like the idea of an observation ~O~ collar, if they enter here, they are not trained, then almost all would be patient and let the girl settle and learn, but if someone should expect to be served, then the girl should do so to the best of her ability....it's been this ones experience with brand new girls, that they won't make that first step to serve UNTIL pushed to do soooo

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Personally if I see a slave needing to be pulled up, I will do so, as they are slave and I am free. Their Master will be notified of exactly what is done to their property and what if the slave is not of this home? Disobedience, insolence amongst other things I will not tolerate, nor should any free.

SabreWolf~~~ why can't a Person just announce they kolared a girl?leave that word out?..I've never given a kolar to a girl for protection,,she's owned and expected to learn and behave just like any other,,protection comes with it,,but is not the reason I kolared her

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ there is a great trainer program in place for GS, but galah don't know of ANY slave in GS that won't help in pm's to a new girl

Shadowglade~~~ Nor would any expect That Brother...it only makes sense that an insolent slave should be punished, however I am of the understanding that it is still the tavern's policy that none shall punish Another's property without Their express permission....

SabreWolf~~~ just like this"peekin"...she hasn't begged entrance,,she's not gonna participate..she shouldn't be reconized till she begs entrance,,but then she's participating,,not observing anymore,,,

Lemuel~~~ As someone new to GS, I can see why a protection kolar might be desireable to a new slave. As a Free I can observe and learn in relative safety, slaves don't have the same options.

Rollo the Ax~~~ So, folks.... does anyone have a solution or answer to how we can all agree for this to work ???? should we have an * either, or * set up here ???? either a new slave is allowed to have an observation status, and NOT interact( except in whispers to ask questions..) or she much take take a GS collar ???? or a private one ?????

Bolt Sarakai~~~ I think it comes down to that GS is its own entity, and has many to look after its property. When it comes to a personal protection being given it could cause confusion amongst patrons and guests. How about the girls go into the {GS}p kolar and if at the time of the going into a training kolar they say whether or not they wish to go into a personal kolar of one of the taverns patrons?

Shadowglade~~~ Even so Captain *turning to Sabre* what Your issue is,If I understand You correctly, is that a kolar, stated to be a protection kolar, is less valid than a kolar that is not stated to be so? *wanting to be clear on this*

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ yes Master SabreWolf, and if the girl watching doesn't interact, shes not getting the real feel of it anyway...it's important to get her out there and participating

calia{GS}~~~ ~* a slaves eyes sweep low from boot to boot as she listens ,silently~*

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Depends on the punishment I feel Shadow. Like whipping would be out, but a verbal and chore punishment on the spot? Most certainly it is deserved. Goreans are not cruel, but at times punishment needs to be immediate.

Kayla~~~ So are We saying that patrons should not offer their protection to slaves with a personal kolar? If that is so then the agreement will be made in private, and no one knows it...it will still happen ~laughing lightly beneath the veils~

SabreWolf~~~ good Captain,,,if she serves,,she's subject to the rules,,,it don't take public posting in the tavern to observe,,she might get out unkolared,,she might end up will steel around her neck,,it's a gamble on her part,,or she could beg a kolar,,that's in the books,,I think only sworn Partons should be allowed to force kolar a girl,,(one's that willing submit planned thing don't count),,that would end the HNG's coming in once kolaring and never returning,,

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Bolt~
Such things may have to be explained to a new girl at the time the protection kolar is offered.

Bolt Sarakai~~~ So the protection kolar on a slave, does she wear the steel kolar when online? Then I can see why it could be just a normal kolar and not have the protection associated to it, she could be white silk, that is all the protection she'd need.

Rollo the Ax~~~ a point WELL taken, Lemuel ..... It is often VERY hard to try and find, or create, a blend of actions that will be both Gorean in nature, but lax enough to be usable here in this on-line environment.....

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ that's not a bad idea Master Sarakai, it could work, for it's much the same as many sites with ~O~ collars to that particular site....but if any girl that hasn't made a decision for sure yet, goes into the {GS}p collar, then she can make a decision what she would wish to do from that point in a given time, say a week or two?

SabreWolf~~~ I said SG,,to Me it cheapens it,,the whole experience..it's like saying,,We're gonna hold a tempoary death match,,You'll only be dead a week

Shadowglade~~~ Well again Brother, I cannot dispute that, but a chore punishment is not what I consider to BE punishment, but the lot of a slave...*shrugs* by punishment and discipline, When I say the words, I mean, a sound beating, or other less then gentle means of making a slave pay for their transgressions...a whipping, beating, etc...is MY meaning for those words....but that can be read many ways by each individual.

Mandi~~~ From what are we trying to protect the unkolared slaves? The normal vagueries of life on Gor? HNG's? Poachers from other sites?

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ in that way, there are not personal protection collars, but only that of the tavern, in that way she has the protection of many toooo, a bonus for sure....it gives the girl to chance to know everyone and make a decision about where her future lies

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to the Slave Master~
I understand what you are saying, but there are people that jump into things without understanding what it is they are doing.

Rollo the Ax~~~ Kayla ?? I don't see your point clearly... are You asking about already collared slaves, from other sites, needing protection while here ???? or slaves asking for just a personal collar ???

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ galah thinks it's from all those things Mistress Mandi.....it's not safe at all for an uncollared slave, she needs some kind of steel about her neck

SabreWolf~~~ Lemuel,,2 words,,"Gor is not Fair"..with the addition of the other room in planning,,they'll go there to learn,,it can be somekinda safe zone,,if We feel We need one,,

SabreWolf~~~ Mandi ,,I'll slap steel around a girl's neck quick if she pleases me,,

Asellus~~~ Right, Sabre. I was wondering when the new room might be mentioned. In a way, I thought the room was for the new ones, Free AND slave alike.

Bolt Sarakai~~~ galah I think the idea could work, if we had complete agreeance of the patrons of the tavern in the matter. Personally I would not offer My protection to anyone other than a FW ~laughs~

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ I agree, Gor is not fair. Which is why I took the time to read the information available on the home page before ever entering the tavern. Unfortunately, not everyone will think to do this.

Rollo the Ax~~~ So ???????? Should we alter the GS{p} collar to not only be collars that patrons can put on new slaves until a captain or council member can fully collar the slave, but to also be collars that slaves can wear for a short time until they decide if GS is the right home for them ??????????

SabreWolf~~~ first thing I'm gonna do Lem is direct You tho the home page,,before I ever roleplay with You if You even remotely act like your lost,,

Shadowglade~~~ *L* For Many Captain Sabre, that is the experience....but what I'm saying, would it not make sense for a girl, new to a site, but not necessarily new to Gor, not be afforded protection to decide wether she wishes to remain in that site, whether in a GS kolar, or a personal kolar? I think it only fair that if One is willing to take responsibility for a slave, then One should be afforded that right. Does it cheapen it? for You, aye, it might, but then We are all individuals with personal tastes, and a personal wish to receive particular experiences...what One may enjoy, another may find distasteful, what One may assume is normal may not be normal or acceptable to Another...*shrugs* that is the fun of online Gor, the differences make it interesting, and Aye, sometimes challenging...*shrugs*

Asellus~~~ Oh, that's just common courtesy, Lemuel, for any room a person enters. But a person serious in their entering and participating in the room may do so....though sometimes not right away.....the others may overlook it completely.

SabreWolf~~~ no Rollo,,,definately not,,

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ yes Master Sarakai, and a girl thinks there should be a time set too for a girl to be in this {GS}p collar, to give her time to know everyone and then decide if its the tavern training collar she wishes, or at that time she goes to a Master or Mistress.....but also because galah has seen far to often a Captain take much of his precious time to collar a new slave for the tavern, just for the girl to never come back again

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Shadow, why not just put your kolar on her. If in the course of her learning, growing exploring she tells you what she wants then you can either keep her or sell her to one that can give her that. Afterall, she is property.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Sabre~ That should be sufficient then. As long as someone new is offered the information, what they do with it is up to them.

SabreWolf~~~ We should start killinf off a few,,that's what they did to runaways in the books,,if they could keep them home,,things like this encourage "gaming"..ohh,,i'll just get another protection kolar next week from someody else,,same with the hng's,,i'll just take another name and kolar her again,,not good roleplay,,

Shadowglade~~~ *chuckling* if I had known I would offend so Many, I would not have posted it on the boards...My apologies all...

SabreWolf~~~ it's at the bottom of Your page right now Lem,,a link to the home page and the rules

Dark Dragon~~~ what I've run into with Kolaring to the tavern, is that they still look to me for guidance, and won't go to the trainers, even though I tell them they have to, and they just quit , the experience left me a little disillusioned about kolaring to the tavern , so now I don't try to kolar any, and another problem I've seen for new slaves, is availability of trainers , it seems one day aweek !

Bolt Sarakai~~~ We are a Kill Capture Tavern. Anything unkolared walking through this big ole green door here is subject to both. A kajira is only afforded protection if she wear a steel kolar around her throat. Simple.

SabreWolf~~~ it's not You SG,,this is something that's happened before and should be discussed,,,a policy set,,,I'm just looking for ideas here too,,

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL....LOL.. Well, folks.... we have debated this matter for over an hour, and it seems that there is no quick, or easy answer to it, so I think it best if the Council get together and make this decision ....

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ ...as I said, not everyone will think to look or follow the link, proper netiquette or not. Some folks need a bit of a shove *grins*

Bolt Sarakai~~~ No way Shadow, these things need to be discussed and worked out otherwise rifts could start ~grins~ And it's not just you it has happened alot online and GS needs to take a stand somewhere.

SabreWolf~~~ aye Captain,,We'll go over the comments,ideas and suggestions and vote from there,,,

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ there is indeed only one slave discussion/class a week Master Dark Dragon, but all the slaves here help the new slaves....there is no way to have slave classes, been tried and the new slaves simply won't come....you can't find a time that suits them all, that is why the trainer program was put into use, so new slaves could be worked with on a one to one basis

jasma{Tk}~~~ ~lifting dark pools up from the notes as she keeps them.. voice a softness~
with much respect Master Dragon.. jaz is a trainer and although RT during the summer was difficult.. since school has started again.. she's been in almost daily..

Rollo the Ax~~~ DD, the slave training class is held once a week, but there are several girls that are trainers that these new girls can seek out for help

Kayla~~~ ~Taking a deep breath to speak and hearing Rollo's words remain silent~

Mandi~~~ ~~smiling brightly~~ When there is no right choice, there is no wrong choice either. There may be the right way, the wrong way, and the GS way, and that's okay as long as we are all on the same page.
Shadowglade, apparently the post was timely and salient if people are interested enough to discuss it this much. *ss*

Dark Dragon~~~ I realize that, but they can never seem to get together with them

Mandi~~~ ...and the slave manual should provide plenty of training to keep a little one busy until the next kajira training session.

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding to the Lady Mandi bowing slightly in defference*

Kayla~~~ ~stroking the girls hairs as I listen to the Tavern~

Asellus~~~ *Nodding and chiming along with Mandi* There are many informative Gorean sites out there that will provide sufficient and adequate basic knowledge for any newcoming slave, Dark Dragon. they can't simply expect to be spoonfed everything.

jasma{Tk}~~~ On the slave manual, Master Dragon.. each of us girls have our email addys and icq numbers listed.. all any of the new ones has to do is email one trainer or all of us.. or add us to icq.. and we can set up training times that way as well

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ **claps her tiny hands at Mistress Mandi's words** yes Mistress, ALL the information for everything they need to know is in the slave manual

Dark Dragon~~~ I've noticed that ya have been jas, and I realize we all hve rt lives as well , so it is difficult for us all !

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Mandi's and Asellus words~
Yes, if a new girl is serious about learning a little self-study should be expected.

Dark Dragon~~~ ok, I'll encourage them all to do that

Rollo the Ax~~~ DD.... between galah, jasma, jadain, vika, zoya, and a bundle of other kajira ...there is a VAST base of support available to ANY new girl.... they only need asked to help..... and new girls pointed in the RIGHT diresction....

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Ok Captain ~looking to Rollo~ We can work with this, now, what's the next topic for discussion? ~grins~


An announcement

Rollo the Ax~~~ Okay then... lets move on to another topic..... that is if anybody has one ???? LOL...LOL.. PM Me if you have a new topic......

Rollo the Ax~~~ Okay… I want to take this opportunity to make some what of an announcement….. due to RT matters….. those being her health, and NO other reason…. it has been decided that galah will step down as the first girl of Gorean Shores after all these years…. She will still do much of the work on the Tattler paper, and help Me with the Home page….but she will not be the first girl of GS for much longer….. the Captains have gotten together, and have decided that the girl, jasma, is the best choice as galah’s replacement…. So for a short time, a week or two……galah and jasma will both be working together in this position, while galah turns the job over to jasma……

tula{BS}~~~ ~*dark eyes resting on jasma, a smile crosses the girl's face*~
congratulations, jasma

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ **smiles a great big loving smile to her sis jasma, knowing she will do a great job!!!!**

calia{GS}~~~ calia's emotional eyes gaze from galah to jaz ~* smiling gently to her sisters......

Bolt Sarakai~~~ jasma will do a wonderful job as first girl. And galah, I for one offer you My thanks for doing an excellent job in this position ever since we started here those years ago ~grins~ you will always be the Gorean Shores finest recruiting officer to Me.

serena{B}~~~ ~soft smile~~
Congratulations jas'

Lemuel~~~ ~smiling at jasma~
Congratulations, little one~

Asellus~~~ *Smiling warmly and tacitly congratulating jasma, but at the same time only wishing galah the best where her health is concerned*

Bolt Sarakai~~~ jasma, I shall congratulate you personally, later...

jasma{Tk}~~~ ~hearing an announcement made.. looking to Master Rollo and mistress galah.. tears in eyes.. whispering~
a girl hopes to live up to the pattern set forth by her beautiful sister and not fail in any way..

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ thank You Master Sarakai, perhaps one of galah's finest jobs was when she recruited You Master, for look at You now heheheheheheheee a Captain

Kayla~~~ ~not knowing whether to be happy or sad and turning to galah~
dearest galah you have been here for Me and I thank you for being the most wonderful Fg GS could ever hope for... you leave mighty big shoes for jasma to attempt to fill ~smiling at her warmly with tears in My eyes and then turning to jasma... ~ jasma... if anyone can do it it would be you and I am happy for you and please know that I personally will help and support the girl in the role as much as I can.... Warm smiles~

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to galah~
I hope that your health improves soon.

jasma{Tk}~~~ a girl thanks you all for your words..
~looking at Master Sarakai.. grinning~.. yes Master

tula{BS}~~~ ~*turning to mistress galah*~
mistress galah, tula wishes you the very best

Shadowglade~~~ *turning sad eyes to the first girl slowly nodding in understanding peering at My boots before turning steel blues to jasma and grinning at her in secret pride*

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ you won't fail sis, maybe a stumble or two here and there, this one had stubbed toes for quite awhile when first thrown into the job hehehehehehee heheheheheheee

Bolt Sarakai~~~ ~winks to galah~

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL....LMAO..... recruitment may well still be one of galah's duties......LOL..LOl..

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Well the Tavern won't be losing much then Captain! ~laughs~

Mandi~~~ ~~smiling at the Captain from beneath several veils~~ The first girl's poise and humour has done You and the Tavern great honour, and she is responsible for people not getting discouraged and leaving ignorant.

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ thank You all for such kind words....galah does this for it's best for GS and for her...and it's not like she is going anywhere, she will still be here as much as ever if not more, and full of mischief since she won't have to be the epitomy of perfection anymore heheheheheheheee

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. Hey, folks.... galah ain't going anywhere.....LOL. she is just going to take it a bit easier..... LOL... and have more time to get chased around the house in RT....LOl...LOL.... she is STILL going be around .....LOL.

jeti{RA}~~~ ...*grinning at her chain sis*...
....Oooo...this could be bad sis...BOTH of us runnin amok??..*lol*...is Gor ready for such a thing?...

Kayla~~~ ~smiling at galah's words and hoping the halo is not too tarnished~

galah{RA}GSFG ~~~ a girl wishes You would all stop with the kind words, your all making me cry and a girl didn't want to do that.....she loves GS and she loves you all

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ something's growing beneath that rusty old halo is pushing it off a girls' head Mistress Kayla heheheheheheeee heheheheheheheee

Rollo the Ax~~~ And jasma has the approval of ALL the Captains, and our FULL confidence in her ability to handle the job.....

SabreWolf~~~ 100%,,grins,,,

Kayla~~~ ~smiling at Rollo

jasma{Tk}~~~ ~crimson hitting cheeks.. nibbling on lips as she listens~

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ it was not always a burden, this one loved being FG and she knows NO others that have been FG for as long as this one has....but as Master said, since the health problem, things have changed....galah did that slave manual to prepare for this time



Rollo the Ax~~~ well, does anybody have a subject they want talked about..?? for around 20 ihn....LOL.. something easy ???? like why is there air ?? what is honor ??? does paga work well as a stain remover and paint thinner ??

tula{BS}~~~ ~*the girl bites her lip and grins as she hears Master Rollo's request, shaking her head as eyes lower to the furs in front of her*~

Kayla~~~ ~busting out in laughter hearing the Senior Captian~

Lemuel~~~ *chuckling at the Senior Captain's comments

Dark Dragon~~~ *chuckling*

Asellus~~~ *giggling at Rollo's words*

shadow{HoS}p~~~ well shadow has ALWAY wondered what slave oils are *giggling hard*

SabreWolf~~~ ankle rack
-(noun): device used to lock a girl's ankles in wooden stockage. Girls who have been repeated runaways may be held in place to have their tendons cut or feet amputated.
Book 13: Explorers of Gor, page 68

tula{BS}~~~ ~*shudders hearing Master SabreWolf's words*~

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Well that should stop them running away again or in the first place Brother ~laughs~

SabreWolf~~~ ain't that where ya squeeze a girl so tight she oozes?laugh

calia{GS}~~~ her hand flutters over giggle lips as calia's nude figure shimmies with laughter hearing Master Rollo's words......

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ hhhuuuuummmmmmm if you squeeze olives to get olive oil, and you squeeze peanuts to get peanut oil, do you have to squeeze slaves to get slave oil? heheheheheheee

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. Brother Sabre... I have often wanted to get a piece of a kajira...... but their foot is NOT the piece I was thinking about......LOL...LOL

SabreWolf~~~ that'd for sure slow sombody down,,laugh,,

calia{GS}~~~ ~*her eyes widen upon hearing Master Sabrewolf's words , sitting harder on her heels~*

Lemuel~~~ *LOL!!! hearing Sabre's words*

tula{BS}~~~ ~*softly giggles*~

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *LOL* slave oils...ain't that the same as grillin sauce Sabre?

tula{BS} ~*wicked looks to calia*~
squish, squish, sis ~*winkin*~

shadow{HoS}p~~~ *giggles hard* as she slips in her oils, falling backards, and bumping her lil ole head!

Lemuel~~~ ~laughing at the Senior Captain's witty rejoinder~

jeti{RA}~~~ ...*BIG eyes as she scoots closer to the comforting bulk of her Owner*....
...geez...that would certainly cure a girl of running...*shivers*...

tula{BS}~~~ ~*falling over laughing as she hears Master Ceredigawn Durst's words*~

jasma{Tk}~~~ ~laughing as she listens..~

Lemuel~~~ ~wiping tears of laughter from my eyes at all the funny comments~

calia{GS}~~~ ~*a lil squirm as she smiles toward tula~*

Mandi~~~ ~~light laughter behind veils~~I do not know what it is, but chances are there is a merchant around selling it.

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ now shadow, bet that's not the answers you was lookin for heheheheheheheee

shadow{HoS}p~~~ winking to galah, mabe not but mayhaps shadow will do a little ummmmmmmmmmm errrrrrrrrrrrrr research, yea that's it, research tonight ~L~



Rollo the Ax~~~ What is the line drawn generally between Gorean in the use of the word Friend? And How much leeway should be given for One Who is called Friend?..... here is a question just sent to Me.... how about this, everyone....???

Lemuel~~~ ~listening as the Captain presents a new topic~

SabreWolf~~~ Rollo,,i'll be Your Friend long as you'll let Me,,prove to me you don't deserve it and it'll be taken away just as quick

Bolt Sarakai~~~ And you thought the last discussion took along time ~laughs~ The concept of friendship can be on all different levels, from Stranger to Brother, and everything in between. And leeway, well that goes into such things as honour, trust and respect ~laughs~ Good luck for the 20 ihn ! ~LOL~

Mandi~~~ I see the Men refer to each other as Brother more often than "Friend."

Lemuel~~~ Friend...to me it is someone that you know you can trust. Someone that would give you the shirt off their back without being asked. Someone that you would also do anything for...

Mandi~~~ *l* But FW, for obvious reasons, do not refer to each other as "Sister", more frequently using "Friend."

SabreWolf~~~ a big diference Mandi,,I have several Friends,,not of the scarlet caste,,others have been through the fire together,,as it were,one way or the other,,,it's usually done within his caste,,

Mandi~~~ ~smiling~ Perhaps a friend is someone who knows you well and loves you anyway.

galah{RA}~~~ seems far to often that One will call Another Friend, Brother or even Mate without having earned the use of such words?

Rollo the Ax~~~ In answer to this question, I can only give my personal opinion in a way of answer..... a friend is one that I know and accept as such....one close or well known to Me.... but there are levels of friendship.... those that are not as close as others..... some take the meaning more serious than others.... just like in RT..... call Me * friend * and I will accept it or not....But what gets My hackles up, is somebody calling Me * brother * that has no right...... * I * will tell those I consider a BROTHER...... let others beware to take such liberties .....

Shadowglade~~~ I think it is a matter of personal decision for One to call Another Friend, however, I also don't think it wise to simply call One such, as it may not be returned...*chuckle* Many have called Me friend who were NOT My Friend, and often I have corrected that issue, however, before, generally, I call One Friend, I ask His permission...in some ways it is like calling One "Brother" Who is not Your Brother, You may not find it well received....*chuckling remembering the first, and last time I called Xern "Brother"*

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at galah's words~
Aye, too often people use the word "friend" for casual aquaintances.

Shadowglade~~~ I think it a point of honor to be called One's friend...*chuckling* and generally won't call One My Friend, unless I consider Him someone I trust, someone who has earned that title from Me...*agreeing with the senior Captain*

SabreWolf~~~ You're either a Friend,,or a stranger,and on gor We all know what that means,,in my opinion

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at the Senior Captains' and Shadowglades' words~
The word "Brother" implies some kinship and should be reserved for such situations, such as Caste Brothers, Sword Brothers, etc.

Mandi~~~ *l* On Gor, I am more likely to consider the other FW my friends because it is far less likely that one would slap a ko lar across my throat.

Kayla~~~ ~Laughing at Mandi's words~ But look out for Our friend Phen...~remembering the Lady's question at another forum~

Asellus~~~ *Hearing Mandi's words and smiling beneath Her veils, all the while listening for thoughts on Her questions, really interested in what others may have to offer*

Asellus~~~ *LMAO* Oh, geez, Kayla! You're so right!!

Mandi~~~ **several veils rattle with soft laughter directed toward Kayla's comment** I don't believe I would likely give Any cause to force a ko lar on me.


Family on Gor

Asellus~~~ I could further that question, Rollo...or perhaps save it for next week's forum if You'd rather...
What of families in Gor? I know We claim ourselves as a whole a family. But I am speaking of instances from the book.

Rollo the Ax~~~ Asellus, I am guilty of calling those of GS My * family *... it is my own way of stating that GS is My home, and those that also call it home are thus family

Asellus~~~ Right. I should have specified. *turning to Rollo*
I have long been trying to organize My thoughts logically on this and was waiting to bring it up. I guess more what I was thinking along the lines of is, "Do family values exist on Gor?" Can they? Did they in the books?
It seems that I recall Hilda, daughter of Thorgard of Scagner (I think) was spared the sight of Her father being killed, was it? What of that? Was it because of family ties....or honour? Or both?

Lemuel~~~ ~listening to Asellus~ Family Values...Hmmn. There are a few times this is mentioned in the books, but it is usually in reference to something else such as caste, honor, etc.

Asellus~~~ Members of a select caste could be considered families by their fellow members, of course. But what of a Free Woman turned slave?

Bolt Sarakai~~~ A Culture question...Excellent, but I do feel that only personal opinions are going to be brought up here as John Norman does not much go into the culture behind the story in his books.
I do believe the family was important and is important for any society that desires to see itself live, grow and survive. Strong caste codes clearly define customs and history provides a backdrop to these customs... I could ramble for ages ~laughs~

SabreWolf~~~ she is property Asellus,,no caste,no real family,,Marlenus tought Us that

Shadowglade~~~ *looking to the Lady Asellus* I think, Lady that family ties are strong, but they aren't dealt with overmuch in the books, Tarnsman speaks of Tarl's reunion with His Father, in much detail...but after that, it's not really spoken of...I think Family's are dealt with as they would be on Earth, with the addition of slavery as an option rather than marriage...*chuckle* *shrugs* just My opinion*

Rollo the Ax~~~ Asellus..... once slave, there are NO castes, NO family, No city or homestone......

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to Asellus~
Once a woman is slave she is not legally a person. There are a couple instances in the books where a Free person will refer to a slave as one who was once their daughter, sister, etc. The FW turned slave now would have other slaves as "sisters"

Asellus~~~ Oh, Bolt, I would love to hear Your ramblings! *eyes brilliant* I have really been interested in this! I'd like to speak more of it at the next forum. Maybe some can provide quotes even? *hopeful smile*
And that is a good thought, Shadowglade. *nodding, absorbing His opinion*

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Listening to the words of the wise* *S*

Asellus~~~ Yes, I realize. But it was Hilda (seriously, correct Me if I'm wrong on this one) daughter of Thorgard of Scagner who got My wheels squeaking. *smiles* The extreme surprise...the betrayal....where are the values? So many conditions lend a hand in this equation though, too....that of honour, and blood, and revenge, the difference in the sexes.....like I said...got My wheels squeaking. I just haven't headed in a specific direction yet. *L*

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ this one thinks Master John Norman didn't much like children, not much mention of them in the books

Asellus~~~ Children on Gor.....*buttoning Her lips shut as galah reads Her mind*.....a possible topic for next week's forum as well?

Mandi~~~ *l* galah, I suppose childrearing is one of those mundane functions not discussed in the books, but Goreans were not abandoned as tadpoles to raise themselves.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at galah~
there are only a couple of instances where children are mentioned that I can think of.

Asellus~~~ Mundane....*shaking Her head*.....funny, but You are right, Mandi.

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ suppose with the serum to live such a long life Mistress Mandi, that there would not have been as many children, for could easily overpopulate otherwise

jafo~~~ in Raiders they spoke of Ho~hak's son

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to galah~ Exactly the question I posted to the WoG forum for JN! There is mention in one of the Jason Marshall books that FW are expected to bear a certain number of children before being allowed full participation in their caste, though.

Mandi~~~ ~lightly laughing behind veils~ galah, I suppose that the birthrate would be controlled by just having the few Goreans who could tolerate children have only one child once in a while, and with the serum few replacements are needed.

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL... For a man that made such a DETAILED account of sexual encounters and had Goreans screwing at the drop of a hat, or helmet.... John Norman did detail the end result to any extent.....LOL..LOL.. But then like many men, He think it wrong for women to take it so serious and fall pregnant just because a man pokes a little fun at them......LOL...LOL...

Kayla~~~ jafo... what was said boy about the son? ~smiles~

jasma{Tk}~~~ isn't that the Physician's caste, Master Lemuel?

Kayla~~~ ~Looking to Lemuel~ Aye for a FW to be of the Healing Caste She must have borne 2 children...

Asellus~~~ I thought it was the Physician's caste....dealing with the armbands signifying having had children..

Rollo the Ax~~~ the Phyisians, I think Lemuel.... a women must bear two children before being allowed to practice that Caste....

Mandi~~~ **trying to chuckle softly at Rollo's comment, as hearty laughter would be bawdy**

Asellus~~~ *Looking to Kayla* Have You any children, Kayla?

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at everyone~ Yes, I think it did specifically mention the Caste of Physicians, but it make me wonder if there weren't similar restrictions in other castes.

Mandi~~~ *l* adequate proof that a little blood and spitup won't scare her.

jafo~~~ Mistress, in Raiders Tarl Cabot pursued the Pirates thru the rence in order to avange the death of Eechius, son of Ho~kak, not knowing at the time whose's son He sought revenge for

Kayla~~~ 2 daughters ~smiles~... I trained under My Father durning that time but was not allowed full status until after the birth of the second ~smiles~

jasma{Tk}~~~ and also in Merceneries of Gor in Chapter four.. there was a section on the birth of a son.. and the ritual of making two incisions on the child's face one on each side

Asellus~~~ *eyes wide as jafo speaks* Oh, YES! That's right! A very good example that is, jafo

Kayla~~~ ~Grinning at the boys words~ Thank you dear

Asellus~~~ *nodding to Kayla, smiling*

Rollo the Ax~~~ That is the way of the Alar's jasma.... their custom...

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye jasma, that is correct, it was an Alar born baby boy...Also in tribesmen there is a scene in which a young lad, hearding verr, make a slave kneel as he inspects her. JN goes into even though he is young he is still free and male.

jasma{Tk}~~~ aye Master Rollo..

jasma{Tk}~~~ aye Master Sarakai.. a girl believes the boy was very young.. like 8 years old..

Rollo the Ax~~~ Folks, JN did have kids in the books, just not that many.. HoHak's son gets killed in the raid of the Rencers, some children speak to and about a slave girl in Tribesmen... many times kids harrass kajira in cages or bound outside.... JN just didn't see kids as focal points ot the plots ......


The Caste System

Mandi~~~ In the discussions of caste, generally, One would be a member of the same caste as the rest of His or Her clan.

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Slavery on Gor is an ancient tradition, woven well within the fabric of the gorean culture....I seem to remember that most free mating happens within the caste and it is unlikely or rare that mixed caste become companions.

Lemuel~~~ nodding at Mandi~ This would usually be the case, though not always. There was a discussion about this on the WoG message board (when it was up).

Rollo the Ax~~~ Yes, Mandi.... most often that is the way a caste system works...training passed down...father to son, or teacher to pupil....and marriages were most often within the same caste..... on Gor or even in the real world.....

Mandi~~~ One's caste is not set in stone on Gor.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Bolt's words~
This makes sense sense One would tend to socialize most with members of the same Caste.

jasma{Tk}~~~ ~listening and looking at Master Lemuel remembering that discussion on the board there~

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Not set in stone Mandi but close to it ~S~ especially for those of the cyclinder cities, and to change caste one would have to go through an extensive process to change his/her caste.

Rollo the Ax~~~ Mandi, for the most part, YES... but as in most things there are exceptions....rare as they may be.....

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to Bolt~
Yes, it said in "Tarnsman" that a child would have to show aptitude for a given caste (and little for their own) as well as be aproved by the city council.

Bolt Sarakai~~~ There could be similar restrictions in other Castes, Lemuel...But out of the 5 high Castes the women were allowed only to participate in 2, the Scribes and Builders.

Asellus~~~ The Builders You say, Bolt? *She lifts a barely concealed eyebrow* How so?

Mandi~~~ Bolt, that would pose a problem for females born into castes that they could not practice. But, Life on Gor isn't fair.

Lemuel~~~ ~raising an eybrow at Bolt~ ...and the Physicians. Vika of Treve in "Priest Kings" was of that caste and in "Assasins" she was one who led an effort to begin research into the Holy Disease.

Bolt Sarakai~~~ ~Laughs~ My mistake Lady, I am somewhat distracted at the moment with Rt...I meant the Scribes and Physicians.

jafo~~~ and dina was of the Baker Caste and went back to it when freed by Tarl Cabot

Asellus~~~ *chuckling* It's okay; I was trying to envision that one! *LOL*
*Turning to Mandi* Oohhhh, I never thought of that, Mandi!

Bolt Sarakai~~~ It would Mandi...On Gor I have 3 children to My Lady...2 girls and 1 boy, they are all born into the Caste of Warriors, but only My Son will serve in the Caste, My two girls? ~laughs~

jafo~~~ sorry, They are not of the 5 High Caste..*lowering head*

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Mandi~ We had a rather lengthy discusion about FW and castes that they could not participate in (Warriors, Assasins, etc.) being considered of their family's caste.

Asellus~~~ So, in light of this being a role-playing environment with self-fabricated tales, We (as FW) really don't (but do) have the option of choosing what we want as a caste? *confused as to how that would relate here* Because now I'm wondering if I did the right thing in choosing My own.

Mandi~~~ I suppose the FW would have to stay in the good graces of their clans for existence, show sufficient aptitude to switch castes at an early age, or make a living in a lower caste.

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to Bolt~ In the discussion on the WoG board we decided that among mixed parentage first preference would be given to the father's caste, but if for some reason the child was not suitable to that caste that the mother's caste might apply.

Kayla~~~ tis ok jafo ~smiles~.... still important

Bolt Sarakai~~~ This is where JN has never fully explained the culture Asellus and thus we can only take as a guide the things he says in the books when we roleplay here online.

Asellus~~~ But....in keeping with the idea of honour, I wonder: is honour taught? Learned? Does it not begin in one's life as a child? Or am I stretching it and distorting it all?

Mandi~~~ LOL--there would not appear to be much security in "marrying well" on Gor.

Asellus~~~ *Smiling over at Bolt* I just think too much, that's it.

Bolt Sarakai~~~ It is a very interesting question and discussion Lemuel, I would have liked to read it actually.

Kayla~~~ I really think that it is more enviromentally learned... One has honor until One throws it away ~smiles~...

Lemuel~~~ Mandi, there was a quote somewher, but I don't have it to hand. The women born into castes such as the Warriors would be considered as of that caste even though they could not participate. Though it also said that they were often married off to cement political alliances.

Asellus~~~ Me too. It may have helped clear up some of these questions.

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Almost all people on Gor belong to a caste, these castes have their own codes, and these codes are followed by those that are in the caste. This system is very old, so the interactions between castes is well established. Honour would stem from learning your caste codes and following them, so it would be a learning process I'd say.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Bolt~
it was a very interesting discusion. It is a shame that WoG had to take the message board down

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ **listening intently on the great discussion**

Asellus~~~ Very clarifying statement, Bolt. *smiling*

Bolt Sarakai~~~ To further that Lemuel, it is also said that the speech of Women was different depending on their caste. A woman of the warrior castes speech would be blunter or more to the point than say one of the scribes, who would be fluent and perfect. Also there was a difference in speech patterns between high and low castes.

Rollo the Ax~~~ It is a question that could have many answers or chioces... if the mother had a higher caste, could the child follow that one ??? or should an FC not be renewed, but a child was produced, would the father or the mother take it, and raise it in thier own caste ???? LOL..

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Bolt's words~ I said nearly the same thing to someone on alt.books.gor That the codes are a set of rule for honorable conduct within a given caste.

Shadowglade~~~ I have a question for You Brother... Was it not stated earlier that Caste members usually marry among thier Caste and thus bring children into the Caste? If this is so to whom do Warriors marry unless there are female Warriors.

Asellus~~~ *Leaning forward on Her elbows onto Her folded hands* Do tell, Bolt. *eagerly listening* I did not know such a minute thing as speech patterns would constitute and define differing castes.

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to the Senior Captain~
Presumably, a woman would not normally take a FC of a caste lower than her own. I seem to remember mention of the FW having responsibility over a childs upbringing. (Vagabonds, Tarl remembering Tharna)

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Lets make the distinction Shadow ~smiles~ Not female warriors, but females of the Caste of Warriors...It seems online we take a very simplistic view on the huge and indepth caste structure upon Gor, which I will say, is only reasonable given our knowledge of the actual gorean culture...Thus we generally will not take a women of the warriors seriously.

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye Asellus, Phen has a quote somewhere on this computer about the speech patterns of females, I will have a look for you..

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding agreement with Bolt's comments~

Kayla~~~ Are You saying though Bolt there were Female Warriors other than the Panther Girls?... Or just Women born of Men of the Warrior caste so that they are of the "House" of Warriors... ~smiles~

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to the Advisor~
Weren't there warrior girls in "Explorers" ~grins~

Asellus~~~ *nudging Kayla, jokingly* If such a caste were to exist do You really think They'd tell Us? *chuckling* I believe He meant the latter...

Rollo the Ax~~~ Kayla.... some men.... obeying orders given... and doing things... are torn between the two..... to follow orders, but to do something wrong...... are caught between the two..... or even to only follow orders, then latter be used as a scape goat by His leader....... honor, at times, is torn from men, not thrown.......

Kayla~~~ Were there?... I do not remember them there... ~smiling at Lemuel...~

Bolt Sarakai~~~ My Chamber Slave's accent had been pure High Caste Gorean though I could not place the city. Probably her Caste had been that of the Builders or Physicians, for had her people been Scribes I would have expected a greater subtlety of inflections, the use of less common grammatical cases; and had her people been of the Warriors I would have expected a blunter speech, rather belligerently simple, expressed in great reliance on the indicative mood and, habitually, a rather arrogant refusal to venture beyond the most straightforward of sentence structures.
Priest Kings of Gor, page 52

jasma{Tk}~~~ the Talunas, Master Lemuel?

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ ...similar to the panther girls of the north.

Kayla~~~ ~nodding to the Captain~ Indeed Captain.. I agree ~smiles~ I should have expounded further....

Lemuel~~~ ~smiling at jasma~ Yes, the Talunas!

Bolt Sarakai~~~ The girls in Explorers were Talunas werent they? The same as the northern panther girls...And Kayla, I am not saying there were women warriors, but there are women of the "Caste of Warriors"

Asellus~~~ Thank You so much, Bolt! *copying and storing it in My repertoire even now*

Rollo the Ax~~~ panther girls and talunas are NOT warriors, just runaway females, living wild... the ONLY female warrior I know of was in Tribesmen, a woman that lead some raiders..... but in the end even she fell to the collar, and not the sword.....

Kayla~~~ The Women of the River Lemuel?... I just assumed Panther Girls as I read the book ~grins~

Asellus~~~ Hmmm....I thought the Taluna were the Panther Girls. One and the same?...

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye Rollo, Tarna was her name and she fell well to Tarl Cabot...And even though she was not unskilled as a warrior she was no match for a trained warrior such as Tarl.

jasma{Tk}~~~ ~listening to Master Rollo~.. the woman, Tarna, a girl believes..

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Kayla~
Yes, the Talunas. They were similar to the Panther girls of the Northern Forests

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye, they describe the same thing Asellus, women who live wild, the PG's live in the far north and the Talunas live in the far south, but they are the same ~S~

Shadowglade~~~ alright Brother... enlighten Me ....these Women that are of the Scarlet Caste but not Warriors.. What was or is their place in Gorean Society?

Bolt Sarakai~~~ If online Gor was more like the Gor of the books I would have brought Phen into the Caste of Warriors a long time ago, as some of you are aware, she can have a blunter speech at times ~laughs~

Asellus~~~ I see. *s*

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Bolt~
They certainly had much in common with the PGs. Hunting men that entered their territory and fighting amongst themselves

Rollo the Ax~~~ They are the FC's, daughters, and sisters of Warriors, Shadowglade..... women of their caste, but NOT active in caste business..... LOL

Bolt Sarakai~~~ As with most women of the High Castes I would say Shadow, sitting at home and keeping it in order for the men of the family would be there roles ~shrugs~ But then again, JN does not go into it hardly at all...Just from that quote below where Tarl is talking about his female slave, and he makes reference to most of the high castes, with the intiates being the exception, of course.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at the Senior Captain's words~

Shadowglade~~~ then...what? They just stayed at home, and didn't really contribute? *chuckle*

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to Shadowglade~
They would be married off to create and strengthen aliances.

Mandi~~~ *l* The focus of the books' plots was seldom on the mundane affairs such as running a household. But the households were run all the same.

Rollo the Ax~~~ Is there not a passage in Tarnsman, where it is discussed about how when a young tarnsman brings back his first capture, the new slave serves him before his family to show that he now has a slave, and his mother and sisters need not wait on, and serve his needs ??? cleaing ad cooking?? such as this ?????

Shadowglade~~~ I was merely curious because I have been told by many that there are no FW in the scarlet caste? *wondering how some online would react to a FW wearing the colors of the scarlet caste, but not claiming to BE a Warrior, chuckling*

Mandi~~~ This has been most interesting and informative

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~
Yes Captain, there is. Says often the first mission given a young tarnsman is to capture a girl from another city for this purpose.

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye Rollo, I seem to recall that as well, it is something of an institution for the young tarnsmen of a given city

Bolt Sarakai~~~ That's what I have been saying Shadow, online is much different to the books, given the amount of depth we can get into our roleplay ~grins~

Asellus~~~ So....this may be a silly question...but concerning caste colours. If you are of a caste, can you not wear any other colours. If I just happen to have a penchant for red garments in My closet, I would hope none would dispute the fact that I can't wear red? *giggling, feeling Her cheeks warm into a blush*

Lemuel~~~ ~looknig to Asellus~
In the books it says that the robes of concealment are often of several colors, regardless of caste.

Asellus~~~ Just wondering....wheels have been turning again. *L*

Bolt Sarakai~~~ ~Smiles~ Asellus, you have grown up all your life identifying with your caste, living it, talking it, interacting with others of the same caste etc. And in all this time their is but one caste colour, I think one would wear their caste colour proudly as it identifies you and who you belong to. So somewhere on your clothing I think one might wear their caste colours.

Shadowglade~~~ *looking to Bolt* I might like to see what happens in such cases Brother...*chuckling as I begin a list in My head of possible FW Who might wish to change caste, a devious grin on My face*

Rollo the Ax~~~ Well folks.... it is time to call it quits for tonight.... we can cover some of these topics in more detail next week is wanted...Thanks to all for coming, and I hope to see everybody again next week....same time, same channel.....LOL.

Bolt Sarakai~~~ ~looks around~ Most interesting discussions here tonight, I have enjoyed it.

Asellus~~~ Thank You for leading these forums, as always, Rollo. *smiling and nodding out of respect*