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Table of Contents

Message Boards

Penal Brothels

Witness of Gor--availability

Advisors' Duties

Message boards

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL.. Well, folks, lets get this forum started..... LOL... I like starting on time instead of 30-45 ehn late like the other forum.....LOL.. So..???? Any topics that anybody wants to bring up ????????

Phen~~~ Yes I do, now it's to do with the new proposal of the piazza, if this does go through will it have its own Message Board*Smiles*

Rollo the Ax~~~ Phen, that is something I can't asnswer right now.....Gary M is still working out some of the * bugs * of just how He can work the piazza idea..... So at this point in time, the piazza is still only a kinda firm, maybe.......LOL..

Phen~~~ Thank You Rollo so now that brings Me too maybe another Board for GS to relay all RT interests and topics...

Rollo the Ax~~~ And Phen.... To be frank, the GS message board seems adequate to Me.....but if somebody wants a message board to deal with RT matters, let them make one and pass the addy around..... it just won't be any * official * GS one.... at least to My thinking .....


Witness of Gor--availability

Marius~~~ I have a topic Rollo...the books...anyone hear when the new one will be out?...vika tells me Oct..in hardcover...be interesting to see if Norman has changed any of his views...LOL

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Apparently Marius Witness of Gor, hardcover, is out now and costs 100 US dollars on order ! ~L~

Marius~~~ 100 well spent...LOL..have paid a lot more for things I would like less...LOL..I will be looking at Amazon.com later..will share once I read it..

Rollo the Ax~~~ Anybody know anything about these new books ????? I don't....

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to Marius and Bolt~ The last that I had heard was October as well. Only pre-orders for the signed edition at $195(US) and unsigned at $65(US).

jasma{Tk}~~~ ~lifting voice respectfully~.. this one thought that she had read that Witness of Gor was to be sold for $65.00 and that it would be out around October..

Bolt Sarakai~~~ I think it is at a selected distributor, let me find something more about it and either Phen or I will let you or vika know Mate.

Lady Larl~~~ listening to the news of the new book.. thinking we better get our chairs warmed up at Border Books and do some reading there till the price lends itself to an actual purchase *l*

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Heres a link to a site on the net
WoG Books
that has the book prices and ordering information

Marius~~~ Laughing..for the $135 difference I wll fake his signature..LOL..hell I would not pay $135 for the signature of God..LOL..LOL

Rollo the Ax~~~ Well, at those kind of prices it may well be a while before I have one to read.......LOL...LOL... had to wait yrs to find Magicians, so I'll wait for Wittness also.....LOL

Ha~Keel~~~ hmmmm...looks like I'll make that reservation for a chair at Borders definately Larl...*LOL*

Asellus~~~ *erupting with laughter at Marius' words*

Lemuel~~~ ~grinning at Captain Marius~ Ah, well...there are some who might find it worth the price...

Lemuel~~~ ...scribes perhaps ~WEG~

Asellus~~~ John Norman is pretty much to God of Gor, though....*chuckling*

Kayla~~~ ~looking to Lemuel~ Did You have in mind God's or John Norman's signature? ~laughing lightly behind the veils~

Lemuel~~~ ~LOL at Lady Kayla's comment~ Either one I imagine!


Penal Brothels

Rollo the Ax~~~ Well then, anybody have a topic ?????

Phen~~~ Oh Yes I have another one...The Penal Brothel does anybody know what it actually is and do other cities other than Port Kar have them?

Bolt Sarakai~~~ The first mention of it seems to be in Explorers of Gor, with a Praetor of the wharves talking to a she urt.

Kayla~~~ ~blank look at Phen~

Rollo the Ax~~~ Phen, do you have a quote with page number that speaks about these * penal brothels * ??

SabreWolf~~~ sounds fun Phen,,laughs,,I vote We get one!!laughs

Lemuel~~~ ~Looking to Phen~ I seem to remember it being for free women who could not pay their debts...not sure though.

jasma{Tk}~~~ ~listening~.. this one remembers reading about brothels in Mercenaries..

Phen~~~ Yes I do Captain...
“Please, my officer,” she begged.
“I am now going to sentence you,” he said.
“Please,” she cried. “Sentence me to only a penal brothel!”
“Then penal brothel is too good for you,” said the praetor.
“Show me mercy,” she begged.
“You will be shown no mercy,” he said.
She looked at him with horror.
“You are sentenced to slavery,” he said.
“No, no!” she screamed.
Explorersof Gor page 58.
As You can see it is different to slavery and was curiuos if it was mentioned anywhere else...

Shadowglade~~~ *listening interestedly, not remembering having heard of these as yet in the books I've read*

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye Lemuel, it seems to me to be that very thing, for FW who could not pay their debts with coin, then did so with their bodies. But were they released after their indebtness was paid off to become free again?
And Sabre Brother ~grins~ I will second that!

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to Bolt~ Yes, I think they were set free againg after the time set by the court

SabreWolf~~~ so,,Yall sayin,,they paid with their bodies,,and wore veils?,grins,,not sure if I could do that or not

Shadowglade~~~ *chuckling at the Advisor and Captain speaking of instituting such a thing*

Marius~~~ LOL..I am sure they were released Bolt...into slavery..LOL...but why would Anyone need a brothal on Gor?...an incongruity?...LOL...going over the books to see if any of the Free Woman present have run up a tab they can't pay...LOL..LOL..LOL

SabreWolf~~~ I'd wager very few F/W came outta there

Bolt Sarakai~~~ In some of the books Bro FW who sometimes worked up a bill they could not pay in an Inn or tavern were forced to work in the establishment to pay off their debt, and work in full, no veils ~G~ They are just a woman until they have paid their due.

Kayla~~~ ~noting the amusement, shaking My head~

Lemuel~~~ ~grinning at Sabre's comment~ Ahh, but with some Free Women it might be better if they stayed veiled *chuckling lightly*

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.... What can I say ???? I never picked up the passage about those brothels....LOL....I know that there are ( or where a few yrs ago ) such things in some counties... Turkey had them back when I was in the Service....

Bolt Sarakai~~~ The slave Brothels of Ludmilla are large, well established and have a high reputation in Ar Captain ~G~ And the idea of a penal brothel works well in Port Kar, given the number of she urts and thieves we have here ~grins~

Kayla~~~ ~thinking that I am glad that My drinks are paid for with a smile~

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to Bolt~ I know there are also slave brothels mentioned in "Magicians"

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL... The whole thing does seem a bit strange for Gor.... FW working off debts like that, them still going back to being FW once the debt was paid.....LOL.

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye Lemuel...Not everyone on Gor can afford to own a slave, and thus if seeking pleasure would have to find it in a tavern or brothel, cafe or whatever.

Rollo the Ax~~~ I should say that I meant penal brothels... I remember the slave brothels of Ar....

Marius~~~ LOL...slaves come with the price of the drink in most paga taverns Bolt...so why pay for just a woman when you can get paga too...LOL..LOL

SabreWolf~~~ We could always make that(penal brothel) the new room,,grins wickedly,,

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ ...and then there are those whose Free Companions will not allow them to keep a slave of their own...

Marius~~~ LOL..and each FW should do a day's sentence just so they know what will happen they don't pay their debts..LOL...LOL..LOL..LOL

Kayla~~~ ~looking at Lemuel~ There are those Men who allow Their Women that control ~looking at Shadowglade smiling~...

Lemuel~~~ ~grinning at Captain Marius' suggestion~

Shadowglade~~~ *snorting at the Lady's comment*

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to Kayla~ Yes, or sometimes it is a matter of the slaves safety when alone with the Free Woman.

Phen~~~ I also feel that the Women sent to a penal brothel by a court or official would be released as it's the law. This considered strange, then how about the contract that a Free Woman can take out to become slave for a period of time..

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. Yes, Kayla... in the books there was mention of men with FCs that tried to control their lives in such a way, or made their lives so miserable that having the slave around was more pain that it has worth....

Marius~~~ Laughing..Phen..you got a page # for that contract?

Lemuel~~~ ~raising an eyebrow at Phen~ But wouldn't the contract become void the moment she was enslaved?

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye Captain that is true for most places and taverns I have encountered within the books...But I do think the brothels are more up market than the paga tavern ~G~ I am not sure, perhaps Marius we should visit one and find out eh?

SabreWolf~~~ I wager she'd be released,,but there's a difference in released and free,,would her family want her back?,,how long would she wander the streets alone,,and remain free?

zoe{DD}~~~ sounds like wishfuly thinking on the part of the FW..inside all females is a slut, some just know how to control them better

Kayla~~~ ~cocking My head, and looking at the girl zoe~ Maybe not all dear...~smiling warmly~

Phen~~~ No Lemeul, it wouldn't, the contract is mentioned in Blood Brothers of Gor, page 101/102...

Marius~~~ Sounds like a plan to me Bolt..LOL

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. We are discussing some very fine points that may have happened in only one book of the series... LOL.. whether ANY of these things would or could happen in Port Kar, is up for much debate.....

SabreWolf~~~ a slut in private is one thing,,pubically sluting can get a F/W in trouble,,grins,,

zoe{DD}~~~ ~chews on her lip~..ok all but Mistress Kayla and the other FW present...~being tactful and diplomatic~

Bolt Sarakai~~~ As I was saying before Sabre, Port Kar, as has most port cities, has many she urts, free woman that can not support themselves any other way, other than stealing food and sleeping with paga attendents for scraps of food.

Lemuel~~~ The FW would have to be very trusting. Her freedom depends on the honor of the man who will be her Master.

SabreWolf~~~ sounds like a different type of slavery to Me Bro,,

Bolt Sarakai~~~ But it seems the penal brothel is in Port Kar and since the Council of Captains is leading authority here, then perhaps you may have course for a different punishment for FW's? ~grins~
And Rollo, in the books every paga tavern had a paga attendant, that directs the girls to serve and collects the coins, he was employed and free...Have we need of one or several in here?

Marius~~~ Kayla..zoe is right..just takes the right man to find it most times..for it is the way of nature...the female submits..the male dominates...she shows her submission by releasing the slut hidden deep within

Kayla~~~ ~looking at zoe with nods and approval~

SabreWolf~~~ but,,grins,,if any of You F/W need a scrap of food,,grins,,I'm sure We can work something out,,,

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye Lemeul, and I have seen a contract that went into place and was not honoured by the man in question. He is dead now.

Asellus~~~ *Listening and trying to follow with bleary eyes...clearing Her throat and swallowing....still listening.*

Shadowglade~~~ *chuckling at My Brother* You just leave that to Me old Man....*chuckling again as I turn an evil grin to My Lady*

zoe{DD}~~~ aye zoe read about that in Nomads and also in Assassins....about finding that in a FW and bringing it forward

Kayla~~~ ~shaking My head, sitting back in the chair, and becoming silent, and pensive~

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Bolt~ Yes, one should always weigh the possible consequences of one's actions first ~G~

Lemuel~~~ I am wondering if such a contract, this timed slavery, would be honored under merchant law in all cities..

Asellus~~~ *She gazes over at Kayla, pine-green eyes warm with understanding and friendship. She smiles to Kayla beneath Her veils*

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. While I will admit that such are facts and actions of the books, and even are in Raiders, which Port Kar and GS are based on, I also think that we should try and keep things a SIMPLE as they can be.... GS has worked this long without special * paga attendents * ...our kajira KNOW what is expected of them, and seldom stray from it.... so I see no need for such.....As for the penal brothel ???? LOL...LOL.. I see enslavement as much less work and much more effiecnt.....LOL.... I live by a simple rule ...KISS......LOL...LOL..

Lemuel~~~ ...also, it seems to me that there would need to be a great number of stipulations in this type of contract, i.e. no branding, no selling the slave to another, etc.

Phen~~~ At the time when her contract is written in it is stated a termination date, so it would be in her papers....But I feel that if a FW did enter into this experiment, then she would not wish to go back to free and would most possibly beg for the kolar after released.

Phen~~~ ~LOL~ Well spoken Captain!

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ and if there are sooo many stipulations on said contract, then is the one really a slave at all?

Rollo the Ax~~~ There in lies the trouble with doing such contracts..... if BOTH parties do NOT honor EVERY point, it becomes a shambles and causes many head aches....

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Phen's words~ Yes, there is that to consider as well...

zoe{DD}~~~ ~sits back and keeps very very quiet~

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at the FG~ MY thoughts exactly *chuckling*

Rollo the Ax~~~ Okay.... MY feelings or thoughts ???? such a * contract * slavery is not such at all.... it is only a FW playing at kajira.... how can a woman find out what slavery is if there are all these conditions ????? you can't brand me, whip me, sell me, or this or that ?????? this is NOT true Goreanism... yes, it was in the books, but is it the kind of GOR that we want ????? here ???

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ seems that even in the books, that "experimenting" came in the bedroom, where a Master could chain his FW to the foot of the bed as though she was a slave, but that was done in privacy, not a contract for the whole world to see the FW "acting" as a slave...for with such stipulations put in a contract, that is all the FW is doing, "acting" the part of a slave

Lemuel~~~ Well said, Captain! And what true man would accept such a contract?

Bolt Sarakai~~~ I think the contract in the books was just simple. The FW in question enters slavery, totally at the whim of the Master(Owner) and there were no conditions other than a release date. Online it has been taken differently as you well know Rollo ~grins~

Kayla~~~ good post galah...~smiling at the first girl~

Bolt Sarakai~~~ If one knew of a High Caste FW of a High city such as Ar, that did not believe she was slave, and he managed to convince her into a contract, would not be considered wily? ~grins~

Lemuel~~~ ~looking at the reference in the book~ Yes, that is pretty much what it says on p.102 in "Blood Brothers" want me to post it?

Lemuel~~~ ~looking up at Bolt~ ...depends on whether or not he could keep her in a ko-lar...

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye Lemuel...I ain't a fast typer and it would have taken me ages...Guess that's why I took the Scarlet Caste.

Rollo the Ax~~~ Aye Bolt, that may well be the case..... on-line does often cause some changes to be made to the way things happened in the books...

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ O.K. Give me a few minutes, I hunt and peck too!

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye true...Gor's culture has slavery at its center, so it makes sense to me that it would have various institutions that allowed experimentation, or even punishments consisting along the lines of slavery, just varying degrees. Online, it works differently as we don't, and can't live the culture, only think about it. So one is either free, or slave.

Bolt Sarakai~~~ I correct myself, slavery is not at its center of the culture, but it is an underlying foundation, as is other things like the homestone and the PK's

Lemuel~~~ “As soon as the words are spoken, or her signature is placed on the pertinent document, or documents, she is no longer a free person. She is then only a slave, an animal, no longer with any legal powers whatsoever. She is then, until the completion of the contractual period, until the expiration date of the arrangement, totally subject to the will of her master.”
p.102 "Blood Brothers of Gor"

Rollo the Ax~~~ I think that the crux of such a legal contract is just WHO will enforce it .....??? Does this FW who becomes a slave for a set amount of time, have somebody to come and make sure she is freed once the time is up ????? or is it left to the honor of the man ???

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye Rollo, that is a crux. Online it is almost impossible to do so, that is also, for either party. So in terms of online gorean interaction I would not recommend this course to anyone.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ Aye Captain, if the woman is totally at the mercy of her master, she could be sold, killed, etc.


Advisors' Duties

Rollo the Ax ~~~ let Me bring up one other topic.....How about we make it clear to all just what Advisors can, and can't do as far as GS business goes ????

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye Rollo, sounds good to me.

Bolt Sarakai~~~ ~Looking to the Captain, awaiting his words on Advisors~

Kayla~~~ ~smiling at Bolt, and listening also~

Rollo the Ax~~~ As I understand it, and make note that I may need the other Captains to help Me make such ideas formal rules..... Advisors have the right and power to represent the Council in a limited manner when a Captain is not present...They have the ear and the best wishes of the Captains...But they may not make policy decisions or site rules.... they may give opinions about matters of business, but do not have a vote on Council matters........

Rollo the Ax~~~ To My understanding, due to the fact that Advisors have access to the GS email, they will know of any votes on slave sales and such, so they would know is a slave has been sold, so I can't see why they could not remove the collar of a slave that has been voted to be sold......

Bolt Sarakai~~~ ~listening carefully~
So Captain the formal rules are yet to be worked out...Do you wish opinions from the Advisors on the rules as well?

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Ahh excellent to know Captain...I was unsure where I stood when the girl zoe was still in a tavern kolar and DD wanted to have her...

Rollo the Ax~~~ Now, as for collaring slaves to the Tavern ??? where as any Pledged Patron can collar a slave for the tavern with a temperary collar, I would think that Advisors SHOULD be albe to fully collar slaves to GS...... but that may require a vote to be made law.....

Kayla~~~ ~nodding~

Rollo the Ax~~~ Bolt, there are many rules already in place, I am just trying to * extend * the rights or powers of the Advisors where nedded...... but yes, any input or ideas are welcomed.......

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Are there any rules for assessment Rollo?

Rollo the Ax~~~ assessing slaves, Bolt ??????

Kayla~~~ I too would like to know, after the Council has made a decision and an Advisor is the first one to see the proud new owner, are Advisor's allowed to hand over the key? ~grin~

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Perhaps any furtherence of rules for the Advisors could be initiated when and if the Piazza gets up and going?

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye Rollo? Anything that we should ask, length of time on Gor, willingness to learn, to stay, others?

Rollo the Ax~~~ That is what I meant, Lady Kayla.... Once a vote has been made and posted in the GS mail, I can not see why an Advisor could not hand over the key, or just remove the GS collar ..... So * I * say it is okay, and until Marius or Sabre Wolf want to say different, I think it is okay...

Rollo the Ax~~~ Bolt, any girl that comes and begs a GS collar can be collared.... how long she remains in such a collar is up to her and her actions.... as for grading slaves.....yellow silks, red silks....etc. .... that is a subjective matter that varies between individuals ...... Masters and slaves alike.....that would need to be addressed with the GS slave Master for His thoughts.....

Bolt Sarakai~~~ I understand Rollo, and I do ask any girl looking for a kolar a few questions to see if they are really looking to submit.

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ Master Sarakai, the grading of silk colors here in GS was that a white silk could go to yellow when she knew ALL the food and drink serves and the most common half dozen positions....for red, the girl must know ALL the positions and have done at least 3 dances Master

Bolt Sarakai~~~ ~stretching~ And which positions are those galah?

galah{RA}GSFG~~~ the testing of white to yellow consisted of having the girl serve food and drink to One, now that GS has a Slave Master, this is normally done by Him

Rollo the Ax~~~ And so saying..... I think it is about time to call this forum to a close.... Thanks to everyone for coming and taking part.....

Bolt Sarakai~~~ ~Nods to the Senior Captain~ Well another series of interesting questions Rollo...Just let me know when you want another discussion to take place ~grins~

Rollo the Ax~~~ same time next week.... 19:00 hrs Poolside time, Monday night..... and it lasts for 2 hrs.....