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Do slaves have honor? Value-what is it?

Do slaves have honor?

Rollo the Ax~~~ Well, should we get this weeks forum started ???? I could not make last weeks, so are there any carry over topics ????

Lemuel~~~ ~glancing to the first girl~
I don't believe there were any carry over topics, Captain.

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~looking up as Master Rollo speaks of left over topics.. and hearing Master Lemuel as His eyes gaze down upon the wench.. she offers respectfully~
nae, Master Rollo.. there were no left over topics from last week

Rollo the Ax~~~ Well then, if there are no * left overs * does any one have a topic they wish discussed ????

brandi~~~ Master Rollo, brandi got asked a question at one time, may she bring it up?

Rollo the Ax~~~ Feel free, brandi..... these forums are for ALL of us to ask questions or give opinions.... What is the question, girl ????

Lemuel~~~ ~S~ Why don't you go ahead and ask your question brandi.

Kyoto~~~ What is it you want to bring up, brandi?

calia{GS}~~~ *~listening as the wench idly brushes an ebony spiral slowly across full lips*~,

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckles at the chorus of answers~

brandi~~~ Thank You Master Rollo, Master Lemuel, and Master Kyoto
if a slave is not allowed to Own anything her Owner does not give her, does a slave have honor?

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckles~ Ah...*THAT* question. ~grins~
There's several different opinions on that, brandi.

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening as the topic is brought forth.. ~

brandi~~~ ~Giggles~ looking to Master Lemuel, with respect in her soft voice, brandi had no idea how to answer that question

calia{GS}~~~ ~*soft gaze to each of her sisters, as calia smiles~*
a question with so many different answers *s*

Lemuel~~~ ~S~ Personally, I think that slaves *can* act Honorably. For instance, some slaves will lie and cheat if they think they can get away with it where others would not even think of doing such things.

Kyoto~~~ Well, honor isn't a possesion as such... it's like asking if a girl has intelligence. Some people have more than others and that is just the way it is.

Gornt~~~ I believe that a slave does have honour

brandi~~~ Master Lemuel if a slave shows honor, by the way she serves, dances or moves is the honor hers? or her Owners?? like brandi has heard, You show Your Master Honor, in the way you serve

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~lifting dark gems up from the rence paper as she scribes the notes hearing Master Lemuel speak.. inquiring~.. is acting honorably the same as having honor Master?

calia{GS}~~~ ...~*calias belief, that a slave can be honorable,full of pride and such ...in devotional,respectful behaviour to her Masters.....much like a girl chooses to misbehave,therefore would be punished...~* - a slave without honorable ways , would probably be a dead~slave...~*...nervous smile....

brandi~~~ brandi was told by One that she doesn't have honor, for it is not given if her Owner doesn't allow her to have it, was that wrong?

marissa{HoS}~~~ one knoes that honor is felt by differently by different people sister. most in gor would tell you that a slave has no right to honor because she is just a piece of property and for many that is what they believe. one believes that a slave feels honor in serving their Owners to the best of their abilities always taking care of the property which can be the slave as well as anything that the Owners allow them to have.

Lemuel~~~ ~S~ That's the really sticky point, brandi. Some will say that a slave's honor is not her own, that her actions reflect upon her Master's honor, but I don't think that a slave's actions determine My honor - only My actions do that.

Rollo the Ax~~~ slave honor ??? It is a valid question, and one that has been discussed many times before...To tell you the truth, brandi... there are several schools of thought or ideas about THIS matter.... Some say that * HONOR * is a thing held in such high regard by Goreans that to allow slaves to say they have it is wrong... some say that no, a slave CAN'T have honor simply because they are slave...... But My * PERSONAL opinion * is that honor is state of being... a form or reaction of just HOW each and every person conducts themselves.... if a slave can have intelligence, charm, wit.... why NOT honor ???? so I say YES... ( but again, MY opinion, and there are those that don't agree )

Kyoto~~~ I think it was wrong, because a slave can have personal honor, a Master can't take away an intangible thing like that.

calia{GS}~~~ ...~* thinking serves,dances and ways belong to your Master...but intelligence,beauty,emotions belong to the slave and are expressed by her slavery.....

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to jasma~ I don't know, girl. How do we define Honor? It means different things to different people.

lissa{GS}~~~ *pressing back against the ripples of muscles on His chest as she looks out over the forum smiling softly to her sisters*

brandi~~~ brandi was taught by One before He left her, that all emotions, feeling all she was, is not hers, but His, brandi thought that she didn't have honor, and what A/all has said helps her to understand more about honor

Gornt~~~ well said calia
I think if a slave doesn't have some personal code of honour she won't be able to fulfill the desires of her Master

Lemuel~~~ ~S~ I think the real question is whether or not the individual Master chooses to ackowledge a slave's honor.

Gornt~~~ if HE doesn't HE is missing an opportunity to mold her with less violence

brandi~~~ Master Lemuel, brandi's Master didn't allow her to feel honor, she was allowed nothing, that is why she was so confused

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at brandi's words~ Yes, the Master owns *ALL* of a girl, but her intelligence, feelings, thoughts, and even honor are still a *PART* of her.

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening to Master Lemuel speak~
yes, that's true it does mean different things to different people, Master.. acting honorably means worthy of honor.. and honor according to the dictionary has a variety of different meanings, from: High regard or respect; personal integrity; reputation; privilege; used as a title for mayors and judges; and to accept something as valid.

calia{GS}~~~ ~*gentle smile to brandi~* all Masters are different, Each a learning vessel along a slaves journey...- you are most fortunate ,calia believes...

brandi~~~ Aye, Master Lemuel, brandi understands what Your saying, brandi cannot say He was wrong either by the way she was taught, for a Master is never wrong, to think that would get her punished for even thinking that

Lemuel~~~ ~S~ It is like "shame" brandi. Slaves are not allowed to be ashamed in theory, but in practice it is another matter. Denying a girl clothing "shames" her before other girls who are clothed and will give her incentive to try harder to be pleasing.

Rollo the Ax~~~ I think that EVERY living person can have or show traits of every type of emotion or character... Courage, honesty, honor, intelligence, gile, wit, deciet... It depends on just HOW and when they use or show these things that determine * WHAT * kind of individual they are.... Not all Free persons have honor or show intelligence... So I think that the status of Free or slave CAN'T be the determining point..... I take EACH and every person at their OWN face value....

brandi~~~ brandi peeks over to calia, smiling to her

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~nodding head in agreement as Master Lemuel speaks~

calia{GS}~~~ *~warm growing smile as calia hears the words of her Owner~* agreeing completely with Master Rollos words....

brandi~~~ Master Rollo and Master Lemuel, You Both are very Wise, Your words has helped brandi understand more than You know

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~scribing quickly and listening to Master Rollo's words.. smiling softly and trying to catch up~

shirin{SholGar}~~~ ~*~listens to all being said, fingers idily raking her tender thighs~*~

brandi~~~ the girls of the Tavern are also very smart in how they speak of such, brandi was never allowed to ask her Master questions like this

marissa{HoS}~~~ ::trading her kalika for her flute and continues working as she listens::

Rollo the Ax~~~ Let's look at it a diffent way.... a Master can own a slave or any other animal, right ??? but does that really mean that he can own the thoughts or ideas of that slave or animal ??? You might teach a horse or run or jump on command.. but that doesn't mean that the animal LIKES it or would do it on their own... they learn that if they DON'T perform on command they will be punished.. the same for a slave... she may not realy want to do some certain task or activity, but she knows that if she doesn't she will be punished... conditioning might be a more accurate discription....

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening to brandi.. smiling softly and offering~
well sis, it's said that curiosity is unbecoming in a kajira, yet.. knowledge is supposed to be a prized possession in a slave.. how can one learn if one can't ask questions?

brandi~~~ brandi nods as she hears Master Rollo's comment

brandi~~~ that is true, jasma

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~looking to brandi and offering her a smile~

shirin{SholGar}~~~ ~*~smiles to the first girl~*~

brandi~~~ brandi, smiles to jasma as she feels more at ease

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~winking to shirin~

marissa{HoS}~~~ ::looking up at from her cleaning and smiles wide::

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL..LOL.. I will say that the clothing issue is a bit different....LOL.. On the whole, we men are just horny enough that we will use ANY excuse to get or keep lovely women naked so we can see them....LOL...LOL.. the nature of the beast...LOL..LOL.. no matter how we try to hide it or cover it up with mental trickery....LOL..LOL.. ** Ain't nothing better than naked women ** .....LOL....LOL...LMAO...

inara{G}t~~~ *giggles softly at Master Rollo, leaning into Master's touch.*

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening to Master Rollo's words.. stifling a laugh as fingertips trail over naked flesh absently..~

calia{GS}~~~ ~*coyly a girls long nail slides along her nakid belly,tracing around her left turgid tip with a purrrrr~* for slaves,so crave the drinking gaze of All Masters....so it works *gigglin*

Lemuel~~~ ~grins~ True Captain, but I like to have something to tear off now and then. ~chuckles~

lissa{GS}~~~ *holding back a giggle at Master Rollo's thoughts*

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~shaking fingers.. then listening once more~

inara{G}t~~~ *sits on her knees quietly, trying to catch up to the conversation.*

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL..LOL.. well, so much for Iggy....LOL..LOL.. back to the forum.... any other topics ??? or more about the first ???

Rollo the Ax~~~ Anybody ??? another topic ????


Value-what is it?

Rollo the Ax~~~ Okay folks, nobody had another topic so y'all are going to have to take one from Rollo.... * VALUE * ??? just what is it ?? what is something worth ?? and what medium of exchange is valid to all of us on the same level ????

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening intently as the new topic has been brought up..~

Lemuel~~~ ~scratching My head~ Something is worth as much or as little as a person is willing to pay for it. I would think hard coing is the universal exchange medium. ~G~

Kovak Broadbelt~~~ shrugs having no clue~

Gornt~~~ for the Warrior, Captain there is one thing of value
that is Honour

Rollo the Ax~~~ A good and valid point... to some, a fancy car or flashy house is the MOST important thing they can want or have .... but to another, they mean little... * hard coinage * can also be flexable though.... from day to day the value or exchage rate shifts based on the * magic * numbers from Wall street... but even so... does money mean success or happiness ???

Gornt~~~ ~chuckles~ money allows One to be miserable with sytle and panach

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckles~ Well, they do say that money can't buy love or hapiness, but I think I could get a close approximation to *love* and *happiness* if I had enough money. ~grins~

Rollo the Ax~~~ TRUE, Gornt.... But does it have a value to anybody else ??? How much is it worth ?? by the pound ?? the ounce ?? the gram ??

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~turning head as Master Rollo speaks, ingesting His words.. then offering~
one feels that money doesn't necessarily mean success, and she believes that although happiness may be a part at the beginning, she feels that it becomes short-lived.

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Value? I believe Value is based upon your own set of beliefs and principles, and what one man may value, another may despise, so it is a personal thing. Of course saying that, there of course will be people that think similiar, and have similiar beliefs on value ~G~

Gornt~~~ Honour is worth a life Captain

Kovak Broadbelt~~~ ~chuckles~ Coin can rent for the nite tho

Lemuel~~~ ~grins~ Aye, one Man's garbage is another's treasure, eh Bolt?

marissa{HoS}~~~ there is no way of saying Master Rollo as a value is to each person different. some place it on money which can be a misleading thing. or some may place it on a single person and thus lose their value if said person dies or may place it in themselves and find that they are not all that they thought that they were about

Bolt Sarakai~~~ ~Laughs at Gornt's words~

serena{B}~~~ ~soft voice offering....all the money in the world can't buy happiness if One is not honest and true to One's self...

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Indeed Lemuel ~grins~ You only have to go to a few garage sales on the weekend to see that in practice...
And Gornt, Honour, is as intangible as the air, and a complex issue when you get down into it, and yes, it is a value to which may live one's life.

Gornt~~~ Captain Rollo, look at Enron, ahh Worldcom, those Me n were rich as Croesus, but they had no Honour and now they are scoundrels and scum

Lemuel~~~ ~nods at marissa's words~ Aye girl, I don't want money for money's sake, but for the things I do want that it can buy. Also, there is the matter of having enough *time* do enjoy those things, something else that money would allow. ~G~

inara{G}t~~~ *raises an eyebrow*

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL..LOL.. I know... the idea of being rich is a dream to many... and believe Me, I would not mind being rich in money... been poor, nothing all that great about it...LOL..LOL.. but what about the idea of excepting just how RICH every one of us already is ???? I'll bet nobody here is hungry ?? I mean starving hungry not just ready to go to the fridge and take out some food.....

calia{GS}~~ ~*looking to Master Gornt...~* well Master Stavros works for AT&T ...and that is where You really get Your value *l*

Gornt~~~ that is it Lemuel, money is the most expensive thing on the planet,
it cost time, which for all of us is a finite commodity

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Yes Rollo, when you put our personal wealth, that is the people in here now, against say that of an ethiopian, then how rich would they consider us to be?

Lemuel~~~ ~laughs~ I'm *always* hungry, Captain - but no, I wouldn't starve anytime soon. ~G~

Rollo the Ax~~~ Gornt, I think so too.... But alas, how many out there DON'T think the same way ???

Gornt~~~ where is the discussion leading Rollo?

inara{G}t~~~ *grins at Master Lemuel thinking she has a daughter who is the same way.*

Gornt~~~ neither will I Lemuel
but inara here could use some food

Lemuel~~~ ~nods~ Aye, there seem to be far too many people that have no ethical foundation to work off of. They are only looking out for #1.

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~winking to Master Lemuel~.. jaz too Master.. ~g~

Kovak Broadbelt~~~ the simplst ting has value, The Moons, The smell of a slave,the site of open sea any number of things has a value

inara{G}t~~~ *grins at Master*

Gornt~~~ that is exactly it
I am one of the older Warriors from the US
I do not wish to offend any but it seems to ME that My generation was raised more with ethical behavior as a personal responsibility

Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye Kovak, we as individuals give things value based upon who we are.

Lemuel~~~ ~nods~ Aye Kovak, a starlit sky, the smell of the air just after a rainstorm, there are lots lots of intangible things that are impossible to put a price on. ~S~

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckles~ What do You expect, Gornt, when all they teach in business school is to plan for five years? Whatever happened to taking the *long* view - twenty or thirty years down the road?

Gornt~~~ exactly

Rollo the Ax~~~ My friends.... the intent of My topic was to in some small way TRY to make everybody take a look at themselves.... To accept that not EVERYBODY holds the same things in the same level of regard or value..... it don't matter if y'all have $20 in the bank, or $20,000,000 .... if you are NOT happy with yourself or those close to you, what is the use ??? LEARN to accept that you see things differently than others, and that they in turn don't see things the same way you do.....

Kovak Broadbelt~~~ to me there is no greater value, when i know i've trained a sleen to the best of my skill

calia{GS}~~~ *~sassy lil smile toward Master Lemuel~* mouthing...and the scent of a slave,yes? *winking playfully*

inara{G}t~~~ *nods to Master Rollo.*

Lemuel~~~ ~winnks at calia~ Aye girl, espescially that musky scent of her heat. ~EG~

Gornt~~~ ~chuckling~ and in spite of their ignorance, you can win them to Your point of view,
Right Rollo?

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Rollo's words~ Aye Captain.

Bolt Sarakai~~~ ~Nods to Rollo~
There is NO right or wrong, only differences in interpretation and the way an issue or thing is looked at...

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. One can only TRY, Gornt... LOL..

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~smiling at the sage words said by Master Rollo..~

Kovak Broadbelt~~~ Nods~ It the Difference that makes everyone not so plan in a since

Gornt~~~ ~smiling and nodding in understanding to Bolt~

desiree{Algernon}~~~ ~melting to the floor by her Master's feet...a girl smiles softly as she listens to the words of the forum~

Lemuel~~~ ~grins~ Another cliché for y'all: "Variety is the spice of life."

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL.. Aye.. history is written by the winners... so I guess that is the way of the world.....LOL..

Kovak Broadbelt~~~ Nods~ Aye,Lemuel very true

Gornt~~~ Aye, the question is now Rollo who will the winners be?

Kovak Broadbelt~~~ Those who are willing to take the risk it seem, there is alway a small mount of risk to every thing

Rollo the Ax~~~ Well folks.... It looks like another forum has run its course..... I want to thank everyone that came along and took part.... Same time, same place next week....LOL.. thanks to jasma for keeping the records yet again... and I will call this weeks forum to a close.....

Lemuel~~~ ~S~ Thanks for hosting another fine forum, Captain.

shirin{SholGar}~~~ thank You Master Rollo

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ thank You Master Rollo for allowing one to continue learning by taking part in the forum.. and You're welcome.. one will try to get last week's notes done and this weeks' in a timely matter..