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The Fear Factor Unacceptable behavior in a FW
Gor.. Ideals.. Right.. Wrong

The Fear Factor

Phen~~~ I don't think fear is a factor at all with most slaves or FWs to Men at the moment I remember when I use to come into GS I would just tremble at times*Biting my lip* Though now I respect every Man and their characters but alot of fear has gone I'm not sure if this is because I am comfortable with myself or the lack of "Knowledge" So to speak and this is not directed at anyone in particular. Also Men are allowing the slaves to get away with heaps online these days there are only a couple that don't.

Rollo the Ax~~~ Okay, Kyoto... I did miss that...

Mandi~~~ There is a fear factor in here in a positive way when the Men will stand up and be Who they are.

Asellus~~~ *Nodding Her greetings as She passes, hearing the forum about to start, whispering briefly to Mandi*

Gornt~~~ ~nodding~
I don't often agree with Phen, but in this case I think She is right, the FW here have been here for a long time all of Them longer than I, and They know Their roles

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ fear flew out the window a long time ago. sev can not remember the last time a Master cuffed her just to remind her she is nothing more than an animal. can not speak for other slaves but for the fire to burn within this body a girl needs total domination and she hasn't gotten that in far too long now.

Kyoto~~~ Thinking about it... perhaps it's because some men treat this more like a tea room than a paga tavern... constantly calling the FW "Lady", opening doors for them... and then coddling the slaves. Not correcting them when they make a mistake such as sevda made. I understand when it is missed. But it still needs to be cracked down on... and if the girl pushes the limit, then her punishment needs to be swift and sure...

Markos~~~ I think there is no longer any fear because the slaves art spoiled brats and pampered, I haven't seen a slave punished for unacceptable behavior and being unpleasing in a very long time

Gornt~~~ Does Kyoto recognize the term respect?
I agree that some of the slaves need a good thrashing now and again, but the FW do not fall into this category.

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL.. Okay folks, lets look at a few things... FEAR in and of itself is what keeps MOST people in line... Do we follow rules or laws because we are * inherently * NICE ??? LOL...LOL.. No, I don't think so... we are taught as children that when told * NO * if we still do it, we will be punished... the same holds for most laws... we obey because we don't want to get caught and go to jail..... agreed ????

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ ~smiles at Master Kyoto nodding her head in total agreement knowing she will push the envelope if allowed to~

Kyoto~~~ I brought in a load of fresh dung sacks the end of last week, by the way... I just hven't been on much to use them.
*eyeing sev...*
Perhaps we can have an example of how to use one properly.

Asellus~~~ The true "fear factor", so to speak, is other Men afraid of cuffing or tying Another's slave to the post because of the shitstorm that typically ensues dealing with "punishment" and "cruelty". *shrugs, can't help but let that one slip*

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ ~wrinkles her nose hearing talk of dung sacks~

Gornt~~~ ~chuckling @ Asellus~

Kyoto~~~ Yes Gornt, I do understand the term respect. But have you ever seen a FW molly coddled in any of the books as they are here?
We are men, Gornt. We are bigger and stronger than women and that is how it's supposed to be. They are the ones who are to show us the respect we deserve... if we earn it.

Phen~~~ Gornt in one way you are correct, however Gor is a Man's world and there are just some things a FW would never ever say to a Man on Gor or even behave in certain ways either without consequences but how far can a FW push the lines before we are pulled up. This comes down to knowledge of Gor and respect to all Frees characters or courtesy for we can't give much more online than that. *Smiles* As for the girls yes a cuff or a tough word here or there would be sufficient.

Thorsbane~~~ There is a considerable difference between establishing a fear factor in the slaves and being a total ass to those who cannot defend themselves

Gornt~~~ and I have yet to be disrespected by One of Them

Rollo the Ax~~~ My point in drawing these comparisions is that even with laws or rules in place, if there is NO policing or enforcement, even the most law abiding person will bend or break them... even if it is only speeding a bit, or running a stop sign on a deserted road.... the SAME is true of on-line rooms....

Mandi~~~ And I have no problems with it being a Man's world in roleplay when it is roleplay and not a personal attack. I can think of Some in here with Whom I have clashed and gained great respect for in the process, in My place.

Phen~~~ *Nodding to Asellus as she leaves* True Lady and this then brings rt into it if a Master knows His slave RT some not all would then have different bindings holding that relationship together and know one likes to see a friend in trouble

Mandi~~~ ~~laughing~~ Good analogy Rollo. We all run a stop sign or speed or spit on the sidewalk or something. What about Those Who come in with No intention of roleplay, but to harass and disrupt, or worse yet who do so from outside in the shadows through pm.

Phen~~~ Aye Thorsbane I agree but the total asses well thay are soon dealt with or become good Masters.*smiles*

Rollo the Ax~~~ Again, folks.... each person is different, and so will be effected differently or to various degrees by this fear factor....

Thorsbane~~~ Phen, it would seem that Rollo's recent posting on the boards should put a finish to the activities of one such asshole

Rollo the Ax~~~ It is also true of slaves.... they are all different ... some want or need only minor control while some should remain on a very short leash....

Phen~~~ Aye Rollo however this does seem to be a major issue for the girls at the moment and I think they are screaming out for it to come back*smiles* Though if it does I'm sure they won't be happy then either if they are in dung sacks and tied to posts etc etc*L*

Mandi~~~ In my Homeland, they're signs that should be all along the Information Highway. Drive Friendly. *S* We are all Friends in here as We share an experience together, and adventure. I prefer the adventure to the soap opera, and appreciate what You give Me and teach Me

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL..The matter of Dak ??? Lets all realize folks, that each and every one of you have the power to end such crap... it is called * the ignore button * right up there on the right corner.... If some schmuck is out of place, IGNORE them... if it becomes a common consensus, then we ALL will ignore them.....

Markos~~~ well I personally feel the slaves are being pampered and coddled and that's because the Masters are weak, I think some should find a back bone and start showing it, the slaves see this weakness and prey upon it

Mandi~~~ It is difficult to push the ignore button when One is attacked and feels the need to defend. And doesn't know what is being said and what Others are seeing. But it would be VERY effective if EVERYONE would just shut down the dialog with Him by Ignoring on Sight.

Gornt~~~ Dak is past tense

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL..LOL.. Aye, the Xerns and Kli's are few and far between.... the type of Master that strikes FEAR into the hearts of EVERY slave and FW alike..... what is the answer ??? I don't know...... I TRY to find a happy medium... not TOO tough, but not too easy going either.... like I said, * Different strokes for different folks...*

Phen~~~ *Nodding* Exactly Markos also I don't get it isn't a girl supposed to wear a collar proudly. If I was in a collar I know that I would always be on my best behaviour and wish to learn all I could so this would then reflect onto My owner.

Gornt~~~ I agree with Rollo, a happy Medium
if I am offended by the behavior of a slave I will call her on it.

Markos~~~ tis a shame of Dak, I was soon to take Him to the pit and take the key to His pretty slave aatira out of His cold dead fingers

Gornt~~~ LOL. nice touch that would have been too Markos

Celtic Witch~~~ If I something before I leave, the matter to which Mandi is refering to you i witnessed here myself, Koyto you talk off respect, as been new here and still learning there was a total disregard off respect on his part here towards Mandi here...

Phen~~~ Aye Captain but as soon as a Man starts acting "Gorean" then they are told not to that they are being to harsh or this is VT not Gor or everyone is here for fun etc etc etc...

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL.. Okay folks, let try and get to the crux of the * fear * topic..... YES, for most, things are not as * hard core * or * scary * as they used to be... and YES, BOTH slaves and FW need a healthy level of fear to keep them in tow or acting properly...( in My opinion ...LOL. ) Is there any easy or quick answer ??? Who the hell knows ?? I know that * I * sure don't..... I keep saying that for the most part, slaves want a Master and not a Monster... but they sure don't want a * candy ass * either.....So far, are most in agreement ?????

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ ~nods in agreement on the no candy ass point~

Kyoto~~~ *nodding as I agree with the Senior Captain*

Phen~~~ *L* Here here Captain...

Kayla~~~ Agreed Rollo

Markos~~~ aye nodding in total agreement, I don't think the standards should be dummied down to accomodate those who don't want the strictness, and those that wanna spoil slaves because they don't want the slaves to think I am a bad person *LOL*

Rollo the Ax~~~ And we also need to see and accept that not ALL of us always agree on just what makes a * tough * Master or a * weak * one... We all have different points of veiw, desires, needs, etc., etc., etc........ What works for one pair may very well NOT work for another.... does that make EITHER wrong ?????? NOPE, just different......

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ true Master Rollo, many slaves probably prefer a much less dominant Master than sev does. to each thier own, long as they are happy.

Gornt~~~ have We put the fear thingy to bed yet?


Unacceptable behavior in a FW

Kyoto~~~ Another issue, one that has been brought up but not well...
What do you do if you see a FW woman acting in a manner not acceptable for a FW? Such as ogling a male slaves privates? That to me is a display of heat that would get a woman tossed into a collar if it was the books.

Phen~~~ Kyoto if it is a display of sexuality and heat then yes in a collar but if it is a display of dominance then it is a fine line is it not?

Gornt~~~ ~thinking I would C&P and let the Council decide~

Kyoto~~~ *smirking as I consider*
Phen, what would Bolt do to you if you spread the thighs of a boy as he knelt in front of you?

Kayla~~~ I guess that would be the person's who defins "ogling a male slaves privates?" One person's ogling may be a a Lady's appreciation of Male flesh... If She is not drooling and not touching there should be some guideline of behavior I think but there is no such spelled out guidelines in GS protocols

Kyoto~~~ But is a FW allowed to "appreciate male flesh" in a public place? To me, that is her way of saying she openly appreciates sex, and to me that is a display of heat.

Markos~~~ thinking why should the FW fear when they look about and see such pampered spoiled slaves running about, I am suprised they are not throwing themselves at Our feet begging the collar *LOL*

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL..LOL.. Kyoto, HERE, on-line with ONLY words to use to explain the why and what of that which is going on, just how does one define * ogling * ??? If Y'all have a pair of tits or a pecker staring you right in the face, just how can one say they * LOOKED * without making it sound wrong ???? The GS homepage says that should a FW do something wrong, she should be spoken to .... but that doesn't mean face striped on the spot EVERY TIME .....

Phen~~~ Kayla truly how can a Lady of Your My or even Asellus statue appreciate male flesh in a slave Mandi well she is Free to do so to a point but Us I really don't think so if I eyed a males privates it would be the collar for me*shuddering*

Mandi~~~ There are degrees of appreciation of the Men's appearance. Believe Me, Many of You are very handsome and dignified and persuave by Your moves, but that is imagining action in here and seeing You, and sharing what You are doing.

Phen~~~ Kyoto I agree that a FW would not openly display such appreciation but in her holdings yes*L* Though I will display sensuality to Bolt when we are in here together but I know what He likes and how far to go...

Rollo the Ax~~~ The * NO open scening * rule applies to DON'T TOUCH....... I don't really think it can be enforced to DON'T LOOK also ...... LOL..

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ ~listening as she scribbles down notes~

Kyoto~~~ ...and I've never face stripped a FW who didn't ask to have it done.
What I am saying is I saw a FW, who had a male slave serving her, intentionally, with the toe of her booted foot, nudge his thighs apart... now, how does one view this?
Look, I'm not trying to be an ass here, if I was, I would have done something then... what I am trying to do is help establish a line, so we as a whol;e know when an action is ok and when it crosses a line.

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ there is a no public scening rule?

Gornt~~~ there is? I thought that was only during the Forum

Kayla~~~ Kyoto... male slaves are not only used sexually on Gor in fact I have no need of then in that way... I appreciate their form and what function they may form in breeding. As a Mistress I believe that Aye I do have a right to assess the slave flesh of both males and females... Very limited view I think both in role play and of Me

Gornt~~~ ~listening to Kyoto~

Markos~~~ thinking how I could look but not touch the female slaves, mission impossible *LOL*

Gornt~~~ ~laughing @ Markos~
Aye Warrior

Phen~~~ *Shuddering* YUK *L* I know what I would expect if I did that but I suppose that's up to the Council to now rule on. Also I know I could not disrespect Bolt like that.

Kyoto~~~ That is because you know your own limits Phen and respect those set by the man in your life.

Phen~~~ Yes but Kayla this assesment should be done in your own holdings and not in a paga tavern if that is what has occured...

Gornt~~~ The Council then should decide what the punishment should be if any, not really for us to debate here

Rollo the Ax~~~ Lets also be willing to admit that to most Men, the idea of a male slave is revolting to a degree, and we generally have NO TIME for one... Women will look on them MUCH differently... and male slaves are REQUIRED to just as pleasing and suductive to women as females slaves are to Men..... a simple case of * what is good for the gander should be good for the goose/geese...*

Gornt~~~ except as a laborer and oarsman

Kayla~~~ A Fw with a male slave sev *ss*

Phen~~~ Rollo I'm sorry so if it is good for the goose to openly take a slave so that means I can sit on the next thralls' lap and not have to worry*confused look*

Kayla~~~ Kyoto... do You not correct a slave that is before not in correct posture?
That is all I did... nothing more ~raising My head with a sniff~ this is all a bunch of houey~ My Captain knew of the incident and He thought nothing of it ~shaking My head~

Rollo the Ax~~~ Kyoto.... It could just as easily be explained that the FW has * assessing * the merits of the male slave to use as * breeding stock *..... If she didn't reach down and grab the the slaves dick, she didn't break any rule... and sevda, the rules say that if a FW wants to use a male slave, it must be in PRIVATE .....

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ ~purrs remembering the hunk of male flesh Mistress Pagan used to own~

Kyoto~~~ Aye Kayla, I do, and I never said your name, did I?

Kayla~~~ He just said no public displays no touchies Phen... Surely if You lap You would see that kolar again

Kyoto~~~ *Nodding to Rollo*
Aye Captain, thank you for setting the acceptable limits.

Phen~~~ *trying not to laugh at sev's expression*

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ oh ok Master Rollo, sorry this one is getting lost here

Gornt~~~ ~chuckles~
I like Rollo's blunt trauma approach

Rollo the Ax~~~ Phen, don't be silly... you know full well what was meant... It is just another one of those FW can't do EVERYTHING a Free MAN can.... that is a given rule......

Gornt~~~ ~laughing at Kayla's remark to Phen~

Kayla~~~ I do not mind using My name or in the incident Kyoto I did nothing wrong to My way of thinking My Friend ~smiles~... I assessed a new piece of meat in the Tavern thinking was Pming Me to kolar him... So I was checking him out... Next question?

Markos~~~ I personally would be having My eyes riveted to the female slaves to notice where a FW's eyes were looking *LOL*

Phen~~~ I wouldn't lap but there are new ppl coming in all the time and I just wanted to get the whole lot so to speak*LOL* I ain't stupid...And if Bolt wants to collar me He don't need a reason Kayla

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL..LOL.. Well sometimes I don't mind verbal fencing, but now and then Y'all gotta call a thing( or thingy ) just what it is.....LOL..LOL.. Y'all wanna go back to * rasks, fadus, and chaks ?????

Kyoto~~~ By the PK's, no, Rollo..

Gornt~~~ ~laughing, hard, striking My shoulder with left fist~
well said Rollo

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ ~giggling at Master Rollo's words knowing she preffers to call a cock a cock not a chak~

Kayla~~~ Ain't that the truth Phen They never need a reason and We FW are always under that threat ~winking at the Physcian~

Gornt~~~ see fear does play a part

Gornt~~~ and Mandi faces the same fear because she and Thorsbane are a Couple

Phen~~~ Oh God no please Rollo not those words*L*

Kyoto~~~ That is fine, Gornt, being a couple provides her with protection up to a point.

Markos~~~ *LOL* @ the conversation

Gornt~~~ and probably more risk

Phen~~~ Gornt yes it does at every point in time that I am online as Phen I have to watch My actions. Because if I step over the mark that Man would not hesitate to collar me and because He has done it before I know he is not kidding when He sets the rules*

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ ~bites at her tongue~

galah{RA}~~~ well, galah thought this to be a rather ruff and tuff tavern, she thinks the FW would have to have a small degree of ruff and tuff tooo to survive here....it's not like the FW here have never seen a naked male

Phen~~~ Aye galah I agree to a point that the woman would have been stronger not candy ass FWs either but thing is it boils down to how we role play our characters. I'm tough and I get the shit thrown at me all the time and the thing is nine times out of ten Im in whispers or q with the slave Im being tough on.

galah{RA}~~~ it's right back to what was acceptable back in the early days of GS and what is acceptable now....as one that's been here since GS opened, galah has seen FW strip male slaves of their loin cloths just to be silly and have some fun....after all, as rt ppl behind these screens, isn't that why we are all here?

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ sev for one doesn't object to naked male slaves running around the tavern
~purring at the thought~

Phen~~~ Yes galah it is to get away from rt and have fun however when you speak of this this place was growing and yes I had a male slave give me a massage but honestly can you see that happening now? My knowledge too has grown as has the Tavern. I would love to go back to those fun times but it is not possible I believe.

Kyoto~~~ Well, sev, that is because you are a highly sexual being, a kajira, a nearly naked beast with fires burning in her belly to serve and be found pleasing.

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ ~nodding softly~
that is true Master Kyoto

galah{RA}~~~ Mistress Phen, it could be fun again if ppl would quit complaining about every lil nit picky thing....in the books, FW wouldn't have even been in a Port Kar tavern, so whos to say what is acceptable and what is not?

Phen~~~ Well I agree too but what can be done ppl are ppl galah.


Gor.. Ideals.. Right.. Wrong

galah{RA}~~~ galah tries and tries with all her might to see what has changed around here since the olden days when gs was new...well, softer Masters to be sure, but mostly it's everyone's nose in everyone else's business instead of worrying about themselves and letting others do what they feel is their idea of gor, each and everyone of us have a different picture in our heads and how we wish to play it out...now granted, some ppl get out of line with their ideas and that's why there are rules and such, and a council to handle when something is totally out of hand....BUT, worse yet is the cliques that have formed in GS, small groups trying to find faults with some other small groups...its ridiculous!!!!

Gornt~~~ thanks galah, the first of one's remarks cost My an excellent slave.

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ here here galah!!! well said sis.

Kyoto~~~ I agree, galah...

leah{Ac}_FG_GL_~~~ ~ her fair face asheen with a brilliant smile, tawney colored head bobbling the believability of galah's words~

Rollo the Ax~~~ That is JUST the point, galah.... TOO DAMNED MANY people think that * THEY ALONE * know what is right, wrong, or Truly Gorean... and are Very willing to try and brow beat others into submission.... Plain and simply, the COUNCIL decides what is allowed, and what is Not..... when questions come up....

Phen~~~ The philosphy of Gor sets pretty good limits galah be it in a Tavern in Port Kar or a cafe in Tor. And isn't that the main reason we are all on Gor is because we love the ideas and to role play in the confines of Norman's virtual planet?*smiles

galah{RA}~~~ they say knowledge is power, seems to me that knowledge has just about done gs and online gor in.....everyone knows so much about gor and so much about the books that they forgot that we are here to have fun, to get away from our rt reality life for awhile and be someone different on a different planet, a place so totally different from our own...except that now everyone is afraid to lift a finger that it might be taken wrong

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ Often times the brow beating leads to good people finding another place to chat. who wants to stay in a hostile environment

Rollo the Ax~~~ Hey folks, I'll let y'all in on a little secret.... * I * don't even get it right EVERY time....LOL..LOL... but I am willing to listen to everybody elses ideas, and TRY to come up with an answer to the problem..... make note that I said TRY to...

Gornt~~~ and doing well Captain, sometimes common sense can be a wonderful thing

Rollo the Ax~~~ GOOD point... BOTH of you.... The books are only STORIES, NOT friggen Bibles..... Use what works, and ignore what doesn't.... and try to make it work to a degree that MOST, if not all can accept.....

Kyoto~~~ *feigning surprise as I cluch my chest*
The books aren't bibles?

Gornt~~~ Blasphemy

galah{RA}~~~ i was FG here for a very long time, and one of the main complaints then was of few girls that felt as outcast, as older slaves seemed to have cliques tooo, and that was a very hard thing to get past and make new girls feel welcome, well....now i see FM and FW forming these cliques, its just no good for GS at all!!

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ some of us slaves still feel like an outcast ~chuckling~

Kyoto~~~ *grinning in fond rememberance of galah's time as fg*

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL..LOL... Oh, in many ways they ARE like the Bible.... they say things work one way in one part, then the opposite in another... so which one is right and true ???? LOL...LOL.. Old testiment, New testiment, the Talmud, the Koran ?????? LOL...LOL.. pick a book, and feel justified to call everybody else WRONG .......

galah{RA}~~~ and just how many interpretations of the bible is there? every religion reads the verses to mean something different, someone on the aux board made good proof of that one hehehehehehehee heheheheheheee well...we all interpret things from John Norman's books to mean something different and unlike a religion, we don't tend to lead blindly into it, we want proof and to want to know why it is

Gornt~~~ ~nodding to sev~ one is not the only one girl

Phen~~~ galah you can't get on with all the ppl all the time its sad but true and it is hard to get past that as well and I agree with you completely

galah{RA}~~~ sevda, and galah feels bad that you feel like that....like i said, its one of those very hard things to change, one of those things that no one has control over, best we act like adults here and not like a bunch of high school kids

Kyoto~~~ *scratching my head*
Well, according to my bible, "The World According to Kyoto", everyone else IS wrong.
*Giving a lopsided grin as I wonder if this book will have the same level of acceptance here as it does at home*

Kayla~~~ But all this choosing up sides to make war camps can tear GS apart ... it almost did several years ago and I see some of that brewing again...

Gornt~~~ about as much as the one according to Garp

Phen~~~ *Laughs* Well my bible then is Fighting Slave of Gor everyone want to watch out now*L*

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ ~smiling at Master Gornt~
least as a Free You could always if You wanted just leave to find greener pastures or a place where You feel You belong. as a slave sev is rather stuck with nowhere to go and no place to turn to.

Rollo the Ax~~~ I fear that too many embrace the concept of another book when dealing with others here... Orwells * Animal Farm *.... where things start out with * all animals are equal * and turn into * but SOME animals are MORE equal than others *.... Rules is rules.... from the HIGHEST, to the lowest.... or things are WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gornt~~~ ~sadly smiling at her~
aye sev, and that is how I got here, GS is the greener pastures

galah{RA}~~~ Mistress Phen, no one says that everyone has to get along, that's not real life either, there are those you get along well with and those you can't stand, the can't stand ones are usually family and that's why your stuck with them heheheheheheheheheee hehehehee anyway, the point is, why doesn't everyone try to do their own thing and not deliberately try to find fault in what someone else does, chances are the one doing something you have a complaint about will be someone you don't like, otherwise you would take it up in quiet(PM) with someone that you like

Phen~~~ Well how do we deal with this do we get it all out in the open who are the cliques and who are the war camps and have a great big discussion on it?

Kyoto~~~ The thing is, there can be and should be, people who disagree about things in a home. It adds fire and intensity to a room... as long as it is done in a proper manner.

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ ~smiles at galah~
we do the best we can sis

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ ~blows Master Gornt a kiss wishing she could make it better for Him~

sevda{SabreWolf}~~~ ~whispers to Master Gornt~
sev will fur for chocolate
~falling over in a fit of giggles~

Phen~~~ sev you would fur for nothing and if you had chocolate you would even give it to the Master*L*

Gornt~~~ ~checking cloak finding 3 rather aged kisses~

Phen~~~ So where do we go from here is the forum over?*smiling*

Kayla~~~ Phen, Kyoto... Lets table that for next week for I too would like to bring that question forward *ss*

Kyoto~~~ *Looking at the waterclock*
Well, it is past the normal finishing time.

Kayla~~~ It's over *S*

Phen~~~ OK Suits Me Kayla maybe something can be worked out. be well