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From slavery to Freedom.. protocol vs the books The Princess Principle


From slavery to Freedom.. protocol vs the books

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. well, enough of * old home week * aye, Shadowglade ???? LOL...LOL.. I believe that Y'all are holding a forum here tonight....LOL... Lets keep those trains running on time...LOL..LOL...

aandra{Cernus}~~~ *eyes look once more about the tavern, then lowering them...listening*

Shadowglade~~~ *LMAO* indeed Brother...though *looking to the waterclock* We're already late...*chuckle*

Shadowglade~~~ OK...That said, is there any topics??? If so, PM them to Me, and I'll get the ball rolling....

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~watching her sis move.. she scoots in a bit closer to the mighty Torvaldslander and nudges head against His thigh softly before turning slightly to listen as the forum begins~

Lemuel~~~ ~shifting My weight slightly to get comfy as the curule chair creaks in protest~

Shadowglade~~~ Let's discuss the status in GS of persons formerly enslaved and restored to Free status elsewhere....this is a good topic I think...any thoughts?

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckles~ A Master can do as He pleases, but - as the saying goes - only a fool frees a slave.

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~ears perking as Master Shadowglade speaks.. the simple one listens~

Dak~~~ was Ivar Forkbeard a fool?

Rollo the Ax~~~ watching and listening as the forum begins.... My hand absently drifting down to carress jasma's head and shoulders as I wait.... fingers brushing those soft pilows of flesh....

Gornt~~~ Who is Ivar Forkbeard?

Lemuel~~~ ~thinking~ Are you talking about the male thrall He set free? I think that saying applies more to kajirae than kajiru...

Mandi~~~ Since each City is autonomous, laws and customs will not be consistent throughout Gor. Other Cities are more liberal in Their policies toward restoration to freedom, including provisions for issuing papers of manumission restoring Free status.
Our law is clear here, concerning individuals who have set foot in the tavern as slaves previously. It gets into a grey area if a currently Free Person has not.

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~lifting up a bit more.. feeling Your fingers trail down along hair to billowy pillows.. purring as she takes the notes~

Shadowglade~~~ long story Gornt, He is a character in the books....*clearing My throat* ok, here is the official GS standpoint on this issue....any person that has entered GS as a slave, is always a slave....unless under special circumstances his/her freedom is acknowledged by the Council in a Council vote....

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL.. well lets see... GS has a stead fast rule that * Once a slave, always a slave *... except on very RARE occasions, judged on a case by case basis.... for women at least.... but to tell the truth, I don't remember any debate or rulings on MEN that become slaves and then get freed..... any thoughts ??????

Dak~~~ well, that was not said that way, *grins* a slave male or female, is still slave !

Shadowglade~~~ Personally Brother, I would have it that anyone enslaved anywhere that We are aware of should fall under that rule...*shrugs* however, that is My opinion...*chuckle* and it would have to go to vote I think for My opinion to be the rule...*chuckle*

Gornt~~~ aye, I would have to agree once a slave always a slave unless manumited

Kayla~~~ If they are from GS they will never find any respect as a FreeMan... Lets Be honest about that,,, now if from another site and they have had no ineraction with GS then maybe... if someone doesn't whisper in someone's ear about the past of the newly Freed *S* ~walking to My seat next to Shadowglade and sitting down~

Mandi~~~ One viewpoint is that Tarl Cabot Himself would not be welcome Here, since He had been enslaved and freed. I don't believe He ever set foot in This Tavern as a slave, but if He had, He could not enter.

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckles~ Well, all the times it's been said in the books it's in reference to a kajira, so I thought that would be understood.

Gornt~~~ Hard to enforce on other sites

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening~..
Ivar Forkbeard freeing a thrall to jaz is much different than a kajirae being freed from bondage.. believe the saying that only a fool frees a slave applied more to women being freed after having that taste or a longevity in slave status..
in GS.. the rule once a slave.. always a slave.. according to new rules does say that each will be taken on as individual cases before Free status is granted back within Gorean Shores.. but also upon occasions such as Forums, and even this past festival.. those of bondage that had been freed elsewhere was permitted to be here for those times..

Rollo the Ax~~~ In a strict Gorean scense, and in the books, men were captured and made slaves at times, only to win or earn their freedom later, with NO major stigma remaining.... but women ??? were most often not the same... they STAYED slave....

Errand Knight~~~ has never met a male slave in GS

Cernus~~~ thinking of the policy,once a slave always a slave

Cernus~~~ twas not a male slave Kol~lard here just a few weeks ago

Dak~~~ 2 of them !

Shadowglade~~~ Two of them Cernus....one to Mine and Kayla's kolar, and one to GS...he has never returned...*shrugs*

Cernus~~~ nods

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. Aye, Shadow... I am sure that MOST would feel the same at heart.... but for some, a mistake made early in their Gorean experience might well ruin the WHOLE thing.... LOL.. Myself ???? hell, I chose death before slavery even in RT 30-35 yrs ago, so I KNOW where You are coming from.... but some don't take their VT lives as seriously as some....

Lemuel~~~ ~shrugs~ Just that the whole male slave business in online Gor seems strange to Me. ~shrugs again~

Dak~~~ Yes, very strange, to Me !

Kayla~~~ Well it takes all kind of folks to float the boat... they are treated pretty bad in the on line enviornment though... Makes me wonder about them some *S*

Gornt~~~ mashocists?

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to the Lady~ Aye Kayla, the ones that submit would be better off in one of the bondage rooms.

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ from the policies and decisions page:

April 19, 2000
Item 8: The Protocols of Gorean Shores are specific that once an individual chooses, by whatever measure, to hold herself or himself out as a slave in Gorean Shores, said individual is deemed to be slave from that day thereafter.

Gornt~~~ sounds final to Me

Shadowglade~~~ *chuckle* Well, Brother, that is true...*chuckle* many don't....but I think that if one isn't sure...*chuckle* one would play it safe....and play slave somewhere privately....*shrugs* though again, that is merely My opinion...*chuckle*

Rollo the Ax~~~ Aye Lemuel.... My thoughts also... but then the Gorean FW would miss out on things abit I guess....LOL.. MEN were not meant to be slaves... and those that choose slavery to death are not truly MEN, in My humble opinion....

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ Aye, newbies make mistakes, lots of mistakes, but I would think most would know which way they swing.

Liv4tday~~~ Agrees with Rollo!
IMHO

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ from the protocols page.. the amendment to this was after the first posting on the policies page:

"Switching"
There is no switching in Gor. A person is either a slave or Free. Only you know truly which you are. Make your choice carefully. Anyone caught switching personalities back and forth from slave to Free will be banned from the tavern. And do not assume that you will not be caught if you do. A Free Person can switch once to becoming a slave. But never again can they be Free. On Gor, a Free Person could be captured against their will. Here, you must decide to be a slave. Once you have made that decision, it is irrevocable.
#1 Amendment: after much consideration of the Council, and in an effort to stay close to the way that the books treated this subject, it has been decided that the "once a slave, always a slave" decision may be not in keeping with general gorean principal. While the Council still frowns on "switching", it has decided it will take each case on individual merit and past history of those concerned and may on rare occasion allow one that has been slave, to return to full status of Free Person.

Kayla~~~ LOL... But they are alot of fun... ~hmmmm ~ As Captain Rollo says *S*

Cernus~~~ that would be true if a Warrior, Rollo, but what of builders and other trades, they may wish to continue in their work

Dak~~~ Tarl Cabot was not a man? Bosk of Port Kar

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to Captain Rollo~ Aye, and there is some justification for it in the books, just seems wrong to Me. ~shrugs~

Errand Knight~~~ aye a Man is a Man irrespective of caste

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL..LOL.. aye Gornt, you have a point.... but then, I AM, or at least was a warrior.... so I think like one.... better a bullet in the brain than live in a tiger cage or POW camp.... My personal position...

Gornt~~~ maybe EK
I hold a Warrior to a higher calling though

Lemuel~~~ ~looks to Gornt~ I suppose it depends on the kind of slavery. If I'd be pulling and oar or working in a mine...who knows, but a woman's slave? Not bloody likely!

Markos~~~ listening to the conversation, thinking, I will become a thrall when they pull My steel from My cold dead fingers and what good is a dead thrall *LOL*

Cernus~~~ looks to Gornt,,,,,,nods in appriciation

Gornt~~~ except if One is dead, then One can never exact a terrible revenge

Dak~~~ laughing @ Lem

Shadowglade~~~ No, He was merely a Man, Dak, who freely admitted it, and suffered long and hard in the decision He made when He made it....why do you think He forsook the name Tarl Cabbot??????and began calling Himself by His slave name??? Because He was ashamed...was He a man? That is debateabe...*shrugs* and subjective....

Errand Knight~~~ Gornt: We all have Our calling and have often little choice in our role

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckles~ Aye Markos.

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening~.. the first time in the books.. in Raiders when Tarl chose slavery to death.. He was still learning basically of Gor.. this was still in a period of where He showed more a ~weakness~ as such a Man from Earth..
a girl begs forgiveness.. she's not saying all earth men are weak.. just to Him.. she feels that He couldn't deal with placing Himself in the death situation and took the only route to Him that seemed *available*.. to where as afterwards.. when He realized what He done.. He didn't care if they killed Him.. for Him.. He broke the codes.. He felt unworthy to be anything else.. yet.. He ended up becoming stronger because of it.. in jaz's opinion..

Gornt~~~ ~nodding~
I agree EK

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at he first girl's words~ Aye, and part of what motivated His decision was pride, I think. He didn't mind dying as long as it was a *glorious* death. He didn't like the idea of dying such a meaningless death.

Dak~~~ aye jas, that can happen !

serena{B}~~~ ~catching up on the topic~..* quietly listening *...

Kayla~~~ Lem... Maybe You haven't met the right Woman ~grinning innocently~

Errand Knight~~~ Gornt ...hopefully We all make a valuable contribution with in Our home

Rollo the Ax~~~ Gornt... that is what clan, family or counrty is for.... revenge.... death is only a transition... and once one embraces it, looks it square in the eye, and loses the fear that most hold it in, LIFE can begin..... LOL..LOL.. again, only a personal opinion.... maybe a crazy one...but then, Rollo has been called THAT a time or two....LOL.

Lemuel~~~ ~LOL~ Oh, I've met a couple that tried, but they certainly weren't *right* ~chuckles~

Gornt~~~ I try
That is why I designed the new ship, and had it commissioned

Gornt~~~ ~chuckling~
as have I Captain

Cernus~~~ contribution??? EK,offering our lives as Warriors to defend this Home is contributing

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~looking to Master Lemuel as He understands her words and speaks what she was tongue-tied over.. ~.. thank You Master.. ~smiling warmly~

Shadowglade~~~ Aye Cernus, as well as bringing Their unique thoughts and personality to Their homes....

Errand Knight~~~ Cernus: indeed it is ..and Our home would not survive without it ...

Gornt~~~ ~shaking My head~

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~laying head against His massive thigh.. listening to the conversation..~

calia{GS}~~~ *~ the mere one,listens and watches..with lowered gaze~*

Rollo the Ax~~~ A warrior offers his life to defend His home... but he does NOT throw it away for no good reason... end of story...

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~nodding as she listens to the sage words offered by her Owner~

Gornt~~~ ~nodding to the Ax~

Cernus~~~ agreeing with Ax

Shadowglade~~~ anyone else have thoughts???? *looking around at the silent room* or are we ready for another topic?

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL.. quick, Shadowglade... lets change the topic before Rollo falls off this soap box, or gets Himself committed ....LOL...LOL..

Dak~~~ *laughing @ Rollo

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding to the hulking pile of Torvaldslander, chuckling* fair enough Brother...*looking to the room* any final thoughts before I move on to another topic?

top

The Princess Principle

Shadowglade~~~ well, ok....any topics, send em on in PM...or Im going to offfer One of My own....going once....

Gornt~~~ ~waiting for the next topic~

Shadowglade~~~ going twice....*waiting silently*

Kyoto~~~ Wandering in to take a seat and listen

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~liquid pools of passion sparkle softly as Master Kyoto enters.. lowering head differentially in respect as long mane falls over naked shoulders to brush against bosom.. she nudges head against Master Rollo as she awaits the next topic~

Shadowglade~~~ Ok...since no one has offered any topics...here is Mine...I was perusing the slave manual the other day, and came across THIS little pearl, written by Our own little jasma, vika, and My Brother Marius...Im interested to hear thoughts on it

Fighting the Princess Principal..
when things go from Gorean Kajira to Princess?
  • 1. you feel that you only have to serve those that you wish.
  • 2. When you refuse to serve new Master's or HNG.
  • 3. When you use rti or afk and never return so that you do not have to serve.
  • 4. When you wish to serve or fur only Captains.
  • 5. When you are red silk and refuse to serve in an alcove.
  • 6. you pm a Free saying you don't have time to serve, then pull a moat if They ask you to.
  • 7. When you pm without asking permission
  • 8. if None pay attention to you, you beg to leave
  • 9. When you refuse to do chores.
  • 10. you forget that you're there to please the Free and not yourself
  • 11 you feel that you deserve to have sympathy from the Free
  • 12 When you smart off to your sisters.
  • 13 you spend your time speaking to your sisters and don't offer to serve Any
    i'm sure there are other things that could go on this list.. Remember.. if you don't have time to serve the Free.. or be pleasing.. beg to leave.
    ~helpful smiles~
    written by and jasma{GS~FG} and vika{M}, slave of Captain Marius, First Sword of Gorean Shores
  • Kayla~~~ I see so much of girls I know in those words

    Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling~ I think that really can only apply to the tavern slaves since personally owned slaves may have various restrictions set by their Masters...

    Shadowglade~~~ *nodding at the Lady Advisor* I too see it all too often in the Tavern...which I don't believe should ever be allowed...*shrugs* but I'm as guilty as Any Other in not taking too many measures to deter it....

    jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening quietly~

    Kyoto~~~ Thinking over the list presented by Shadowglade...
    What is it you are asking us to consider here? A cure? More items for the list?

    calia{GS}~~~ ~*biting into her lips*~ knowing with slave heart and fiery belly,calia works hard to be nothing on that list ...-

    Shadowglade~~~ true Lem...but aren't Our rules paramount in Our home??? I would have it so...granted I think that there is some lattitude for privately owned slaves...but if one girl is held to Our standards, shouldn't the rest be held to something close????

    jasma{GS~FG}~~~ this one has pm'd some of the girls before to remind them not to be idle then right after she's noticed them beg to depart..

    Shadowglade~~~ merely Your thoughts Kyoto...

    aandra{Cernus}~~~ *listening quietly, eyes go to Master Lemuel, smiling shyly, grateful to see His words which be true in aandra's case*

    Kyoto~~~ Sitting by myself at my table as I think, occasionally letting my eyes drift to the many girls on the slave furs, wondering which might like to keep me company

    Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ I'm not saying all slaves shouldn't try to avoid being *princesses* just that We shouldn't outright *order* a Master to make His slave conform.

    Dak~~~ I think there has to be toleration or no slaves !

    galah{RA}~~~ **raising alil hand** does one not serve well at times by entertaining instead of always offering a drink? many and most of those points are ever so true, like sisters entertaining one another in horseplay while free are not served is wrong...but if one is entertaining the free and no one has sent her for a drink, is that not allowed? galah thinks things need get back to having the time here enjoyable for all, too many have said that gor has changed and not for the best **soft sigh as she catches her breath**

    serena{B}~~~ ~dark eyes scanning the room....~ listening intently...

    Kyoto~~~ Hmmm, well, I suppose it goes down to the training and supervision a girl gets.

    Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to galah~ Aye, I know I enjoy watching the antics of some of the girls.

    Kayla~~~ Hmmmm But then if they don't Lemuel, then they need to only enter when their Owners are about....
    We have had one visitor slave who says My Master allows Me to spaeak in first person... Well not in GS... and if the slave is going to do so they best have thier Master's sword with them *S*

    jasma{GS~FG}~~~ from the slave rules:

    9) Special Instructions
    Slaves who have "special" instructions from their Master are advised to inform a Captain or Advisor of Gorean Shores of those rules so that he or she may assist you in keeping obedient to your Master, and to ensure that other visitors do not try to make you do something which you are forbidden.

    calia{GS}~~~ *~warm smile,nodding...as she listens to galah...~*
    calia thinking the same......she begs permission to practice dance...,massage shoulders or shine boots ~lil squirm~.... - wondering too what is desired by the Free,here

    Shadowglade~~~ I would agree galah however, there must be some decorum sometimes...if a girl only comes in to play, and isn't expected to be a slave, but rather just an entertainer...why is she on Gor? I agree that everyone should be able to have fun, but I feel very strongly that such fun should be kept within the precepts of the Gorean novels....

    galah{RA}~~~ this one thinks that one wishing a drink is just as able to tell a girl to fetch a drink without waiting to be offered a drink? is it not human nature for slaves or anyone for that matter to be lazy IF allowed to do so?

    Kayla~~~ It is not a matter of antics,,, I don't think that is what the princess rules are all about... it's those girls who won't enter unless a certian Master is about... pick and chose who they will serve... Or pop out when someone comes in knowing they will ask foe serves...

    Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to the Lady~ Aye Kayla, and We can always tie the girl to the post. Still, it's up to their Master or Mistress to make them follow Our rules.

    Errand Knight~~~ *listening intently, reflecting on the coming and going of slaves as a measure of their preference*

    Kayla~~~ That is if the girl is posted... mostly it is allowed to happen and thus the princess rules

    Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at the Advisor's words~ Aye, that is more of a problem, especially if it is a slave owned by the Tavern.

    jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening~.. with respect.. there's also a difference in having fun with one's sisters approved by the Free, if They're not saying anything about it and service has been offered, in contrast to just kneeling there and not doing anything but saying.. "Greetings Master or Mistress" then not saying anything else.. or participating in anyway..

    galah{RA}~~~ this one thinks serving is important, a slave that does not serve is a waste and not feeling her slavehood, but this one also thinks that Masters should be more forceful and let their wishes be known...IF then a slave shurks her duties then for sure she has a princess attitude...this one agrees with calia, much more ways to serve than a drink that don't exist, dancing, massaging, teasing and such, this one thinks is serving also

    Rollo the Ax~~~ This list shows MANY different things or actions.... some should NOT be condoned under ANY conditions, and some are un-avoidable at times... for rules to be fair AND effective, they must apply to ALL !!!! from the lowest to the HIGHEST.... but remember, what may seem as one thing to one person, may well be quite different to another .... so moderation AND mediation should always be the watchwords ...... make sure that your thoughts or ideas are true or well founded before screaming them from the roof tops.....LOL..LOL... in other words, * stop, look, and listen * before ending up with your boot in your mouth..... LOL...LOL.. and remember, there will ALWAYS be levels or degrees of committment or ability involved when comparing one person or slave to another......

    Dak~~~ well said Captain, I miss your wisdom around here !

    Markos~~~ listening to the conversation

    calia{GS}~~~ *~warm smile toward galah ...~* hopefully serving in offering some small pleasure,or smile for Their day..~*
    pleasure of relax or laughter.....sensual dance,...or a flirty lap wiggle *winking at her* , all serving Free,in calias' mind as well ..
    ~but those that kneel stagnent on the furs,not offering and not budging off their lil upturned heels~* , that is another story...

    galah{RA}~~~ the slaves of gs are all expected to be perfect, but these slaves need Masters that aren't afraid to set a girl to task...and if ALL the gs Masters was like real gorean Masters, girls would not be hiding out and waiting for certain ones?

    Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at galah's words~ Aye, I think that is part of it. A slave asked ME once if I thought every person that entered with a capped name deserved respect. I told her it wasn't her choice to make and she should treat all Free with respect.

    Kayla~~~ Agreed galah... but sometime it helps for the girls to help show the way *S* some of the best Men were hand led (or led by something else) by a slave *S*

    Shadowglade~~~ well, Brother, I agree...and I think alot of the fault DOES rest with Us the Masters, as galah said....I MYSELF have been guilty of not calling the girls on these things....many privately owned, and GS as well....

    calia{GS}~~~ the slaves here are to please Every Free,most certaintly not the other way around...~* ...*her sunkissed shoulder,shrug..as she gazes to the floor~*

    Gornt~~~ ~listening to the discussion~

    galah{RA}~~~ any girl sittin on her duff and doing nothing but greeting, is wrong to be sure...and galah isn't even saying a girl should be allowed to serve only by joking and playing, only that more need to realize there are many ways to serve, that if a girl has brought alil lighthearted humor and laughter into Ones life for that day, then she has served well and should feel the satisfaction that she has done well

    galah{RA}~~~ yes Mistress Kayla, galah has led many in the right direction in her years here...some came along ways to become captains and such hehehehehehehee hehehehehehe but again, helping a new free is another way of serving, can help in whispers and teaching the ways of gor in a more subtle way

    Dak~~~ very well, little one !

    Shadowglade~~~ agreed galah....*winking at the sultry vixen on her Master's lap*

    jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening silently to all that's being offered while scribing the notes~

    Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. My friends... a larl is not a verr, and never will be .... nor is a tarn a vulo.... each and every person...Free or slave, is still an individual at the core... and as such, will act or react in slightly different ways to any given situation.... LOL.. TRY to start off with a word or whisper, then move to the carrot, before resorting to the stick.... many will respond... those that don't ?? get beat in the end....

    Dak~~~ well said, galah, I would not have lasted this long had it not been for the nurturing of slaves !

    Kyoto~~~ Listening to Rollo and nodding in agreement

    calia{GS}~~~ biting into her lips, keeping quieter...~*

    Mandi~~~ Aye, galah, thinking of some of the suavest moves and some of the funniest, in the interest of educating the Free. you were numero uno in that department, little one

    Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to galah~ Aye, the trouble is that some of the slaves are short on patience with the inexperienced ones because they see so many of them that just want to get them to an alcove.

    jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~shifting on heels as she listens intently to the truth in Master Rollo's words..~

    Lemuel~~~ ~S~ ...and then there are girls that are only interested in serving Men and don't even bother to acknowledge a Free Woman.

    galah{RA}~~~ well, since this is forum, and a girl is allowed to speak freely, she would like to add to that Master Lemuel, this she knows from her time as a fg...the real goreans find that the time in an alcove is just to time consuming thing they don't wish to spend there important time with, most or all the captains rarely use girls sexually, so of course the girls feel they are being abused by HNG's

    Mandi~~~ Aye, Lemuel, that happens some, yet the preference for the Men is understandable, given the rugged Free Men who frequent the Tavern.

    Shadowglade~~~ Well, Lem, it has already been agreed upon at other GS forums, that there are HNGs on Gor...some wearing the cloths of the free, and some wearing the steel of the slave.....so it isn't unheard of...but I think We as Goreans really DO need to be more mindful of princesses, and try to keep it to a minimum if possible....

    va`lain{A}~~~ ~nods~ very good point galah~

    Dak~~~ go where?

    Gornt~~~ ~nodding~

    jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening to galah's words.. nodding head in agreement~.. aye sis.. precisely.. ~nibbling lips.~

    Rollo the Ax~~~ NOW, after all of this is said and done, there still remains the fact that in GS, the Council expects... no, DEMANDS, a certain * minimum * standard of behavior from ALL... slave and Free alike.... and quite simply put... * If ANY person feels that they CAN'T agree or abide by these minimum standards of action, then maybe GS is not the place they should be...*

    Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ And I sympathize with that, galah. But I don't think that is an excuse for acting disrespectful to a Free...even if they are an HNG.

    Shadowglade~~~ Indeed, nor will those people be made welcome here Brother...

    calia{GS}~~~ *~listening as calia's eyes roam about...lowered~*

    Kayla~~~ Agreed Rollo

    galah{RA}~~~ if the girls could serve sexually without the sex, you would see great changes....it takes ahns and ahns in an alcove, is that time well spent for one to serve in that way when there are captains and pledged gorean males in the tavern to serve? this one can guarantee one thing....slaves wish to serve those that appear to be true goreans, but those are the Ones that don't wish the sex and only wish to join in the brotherhood of goreans

    amera{EF}~~~ amera peeks to her Master, giving Him a sweet smile before she listens once more, hoping to learn something

    Kayla~~~ I have seen them come and go in five minutes galah ~grinning~ So I guess that would depend...LOL

    Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling at galah's words~ I agree completely.

    Deirdre~~~ *covering My mouth......trying to stifle the giggle at Kayla's wise and humorous remark*

    Dak~~~ interesting thought galah, why have a slave entice, then ?

    Shadowglade~~~ *glancing to the Lady puzzled, wondering how She would know wether One has come and gone*

    Gornt~~~ ~listening~

    marika~~~ slips in quietly and kneels into the furs to listen

    Kayla~~~ ~sitting back looking innocent as a proper Free Woman should~

    Shadowglade~~~ Because it is what is expected of them Dak....*shrugs* slaves are to be pleasing to All....at all times...their lives in GS may depend upon it....

    galah{RA}~~~ there is never an excuse for disrespect of anyone, slave or free...but especially a slave to a free, we are all real ppl behind these keyboards, and most of us are good friends, another reason for the lack of use of girls by the hierarchy...this one just thinks that even though slave, girls should not have to serve in alcoves with HNG's unless they wish toooo, time is to precious....just cause a girl serves sexually as she is taught to do, does NOT means she wishes to be drug off by ever tom dick and harry

    Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL..LOL.. and some of us, galah, are just too damned SLOW when it comes to VT alcoving... or tongue tied.. or all thumbs... or... Hey, those last two could still be fun.....LOL...LOL.. But your point is well made... ANY girl that feels she is being * snubbed * by Rollo for not being used in an alcove doesn't KNOW Rollo... LOL..LOL.. I may well be doing her a favor... LOL..LOL.. nothing worse than a kajira falling asleep waiting for a posting from a slow typer....LOL.

    jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~offering softly~.. and it also doesn't do anything to one's slavebelly when they barely make it in the door and one's pm'd asking if she's going to be there long enough to fur with.. right off the bat before she's even begged entry
    ~sighing~

    Gornt~~~ I agree with galah

    Dak~~~ it seems a contradiction at times !!

    Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to the sweet kajira~ Aye galah and if the girls are being pestered by an HNG they should bring it to the attention of a Council member ASAP, or even another regular patron. Let the Free deal with them.

    NY Raven~~~ the contradiction being that We allow a ka'jira to have the option of choice....therefore elevating a slave to a higher status

    jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~giggling at Master Rollo's words about the thumbs.. then looking at His hands.. wiggling brows..~

    Kayla~~~ ~Hmmmm thinking over the very wise Captain's words and glacing at Shadow~

    galah{RA}~~~ a slaves fire burns to serve Master Dak, but as this one said before, serving can be many ways, not only in an alcove...you know it's only the newest of goreans that wish to bed every slave, like notches on their belts, the real goreans rather count their kills or their treasures...is a girl being too blunt here?

    Kayla~~~ slaves have no choice...

    Shadowglade~~~ not at all Raven...anyone online DOES have a choice, whether it's given them or not....as We each have an off switch....

    NY Raven~~~ perhaps that is the problem that surrounds A/all here...the fact that a slave does not have a choice

    Kayla~~~ Keep it coming galah... it is very refreshing dearest *ss*

    Dak~~~ it seems some want the books as law on some things, and other things, be overlooked !

    Gornt~~~ ~nodding at the wisdom of Shadowglade's words~
    same goes with any electronic device

    Rollo the Ax~~~ But Raven, in truth, the kajira do NOT have the choice.... if she is in GS, she is expected to serve... slaves have but ONE status....... slave..... their options ??? serve, or LEAVE....

    galah{RA}~~~ yes Master Raven, therein lies the problem, slaves can't make that choice, so they do what is second best, and that is to leave the tavern when a HNG comes looking for cybersex, or not to come in at all, then there's the problem of slaves that seem as princesses because they don't come to serve all...this one is as guilty as the rest, and knows better tooo, it don't make it any easier, the many ahns spent in an alcove just doesn't seem to this one to be serving in her best ability

    NY Raven~~~ Yes Shadowglade, 'tis true that the off switch is readily available to A/all.......but a true slave that lives as one...has been trained to avoid the off switch...

    Kayla~~~ but as the Captain says all have the power of the off switch and choice is the main difference between Gor and BDSM Raven ~soft smile~

    Dak~~~ and what I've read, their slaves are their treasures !

    va`lain{A}~~~ va, speaks up ~softly~
    all points are very valid, however, in the books a girl came with the price of paga, and none, were allowed to say whether they can or cannot fur.....va tends to disagree a bit on the "HNG's" though, furring is PART of slavery, being pleasing....not the ONLY aspect, no, but IS a part of it, and should be expected if slave is not restricted.
    if she is not mistaken, is'nt there something in GS rules that state a girl comes with the price of paga?

    NY Raven~~~ ,,,there lies the dilemma...Rollo agrees that the off switch is off limits...that a ka'jira has no options,,,no choice....Shadowglade offers the opinion that all have the option of the off switch.....

    calia{GS}~~~ sighing quietly as she listens to galah's words...~* calia being as quilty,as the next....searching Who is here,before entering..for a girl wants,aches,needs to serve with heat....but perhaps has not the time to fur for hours on end.....with One Who seeks,only thus from her...... smolders a girls slave belly,....fast.......
    but she is slave...soooo ...~bewildered smile to her~

    galah{RA}~~~ would also like to add Master Rollo, its not the speed which one types, this one has been alcoved wayyyyyyyy to many times with One that will give a two or three word response to a long labourous posting....it's very difficult to serve in that way as the same can be said about drink serves also

    Kyoto~~~ Aye va, but that is not always the case with personally owned slaves, they serve at their Master's discretion.

    Rollo the Ax~~~ again, Raven.... Gorean slavery is NOT the same as BDSM .... and perhaps it is simply the semantics that keep causing the problem..... BDSM should more aptly call their girls * subbies * instead of slaves, for only there do they get to * set the limits *..... on Gor, a slave is that....slave.....

    Dak~~~ that's true galah, and Master decides how they serve ! I've probably heard as many complaints from slaves over not being used, as others have over being used !

    Lemuel~~~ ~chuckles~ Well galah, us Men just aren't as verbose as some of the kajirae. We tend to grunt more than talk anyway. ~grins~

    va`lain{A}~~~ aii Master Kyoto tis true, as well as in books....it is that way.....she feels if she were unrestricted and was called to alcove, whether she thought an HNG or just One she would not like...she would comply...the girls in the books had NO choice either...

    jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~offering this from the slave manual for va'lain~

    yellow silks
    Yellow - Denotes the Tavern owned slave..her use is rented and negotiated with the Tavern owner and may include sexual favors at the owners discretion. These girls are the Paga girls of the Gorean novels.
    "Vagabond of Gor" p. 400 another yellow silk reference is: Captive of Gor page 356

    NY Raven~~~ I agree Rollo,,and I apologize for not having made an appearance sooner....so it is difficult to offer an honest opinion without being fully aware of what has been said,,,,and what has been argued.

    Shadowglade~~~ Well Folks, post Your last thoughts on this topic, as I am about to call this Forum to a close...

    galah{RA}~~~ galah agrees that sex was an important part of gor in the books and the use of slaves...but online, how many of the REAL gorean masters do you know that still use slaves sexually? that is what this ones gripe is, we get drug off by non goreans or new goreans, which of neither is in the books to deal with, as all in the books are real goreans, we don't have that luxury

    vika{M}~~~ ~vika nods to her sister....agreed.~

    Rollo the Ax~~~ No Raven, Shadowglade is right, but so also am I.... like I said before... any kajira that either CAN't or WON'T serve has only one option.... LEAVE.... No Master half way around the RT world can MAKE a slave do ANYTHING... the girl must be willing... but WHILE on Gor, they WILL serve or face the repercussions.....

    galah{RA}~~~ heheheheheee heheheheheee but Master Lemuel, this one has been in alcoves with real goreans, and they do much more than just grunt, for they know what a slaves needs are, and more importantly what their own needs are and demand such from her

    va`lain~~~ aii, true...still the fact remains it is a slave's job...whether the True Gorean Masters use the girls or Others not considered that..but what constitutes that anyways?

    Lemuel~~~ ~winking at galah~ Aye, but it isn't always necessary to drag a girl off to an alcove to light her fire. ~WEG~

    Shadowglade~~~ alright, this forum is officially closed...thanks for the discussion all, you're all welcome to continue..but this forum is OVER....*chuckle*

    NY Raven~~~ That is exactly what I am saying...that both You and Shadowglade are both correct...resulting in this dilemma. There will be slaves that live, sleep and eat as ka'jira...and there will be slaves that resort to the off switch. Which of these correct??

    Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL.. no worries, Raven..... everybody has their own opinions or ideas.... Y'all are still welcome to voice Yours....

    va`lain{A}~~~ that too is true Master Lemuel, many times in the books, Masters just wished to converse with Their girls, or just hold them....

    galah{RA}~~~ yes Master Lemuel, that is about the truest and smartest thing said....it indeed is not about dragging a girl off to light her fire, and as in the books, IF a girl should get overheated, then she will beg for use...if not by the One that got her fire going, then by any that will quench her thirst heheheheheheee

    vika{M}~~~ ~vika gazes towards Master Raven...very astute of You...*smiles* A true observation and valid question. *smiles softly*~

    Kayla~~~ Neither Raven *S* there is a middle ground there ~smiles~

    Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. Which ???? BOTH....neither ????? apples and oranges, Raven.... is one * better * than the other ???? NO, their are simply different forms of the SAME thing....

    NY Raven~~~ thank you vika....*S*

    Shadowglade~~~ OK ONCE AGAIN.....this forum is closed...all slave rules are now in place....and thank you for your support....*chuckle*

    Gornt~~~ Thank You Captain for restraining Us, ~chuckling~

    Lemuel~~~ ~smiles~ Thanks for hosting the forum Captain Shadowglade.

    Shadowglade~~~ not a problem Lem...*chuckle* I was honored when the senior Captain suggested it...*chuckle*

    jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening to Master Shadowglade call the forum to a close.. trying to get all the words spoken down on the pieces of rence paper.. fingers moving as swift as they can~

    Rhuarc~~~ damn..missed the forum

    galah{RA}~~~ does that mean for a girl to zip her lips Master Shadowglade? heheheheheheee

    Shadowglade~~~ not at all galah...*chuckle* just that the slave rules of the forum are now void...*chuckle* begging entrance, offering to serve etc should now be observed by the slaves....

    Markos~~~ having listened to the forum with keen interest, Thanks Captain

    galah{RA}~~~ this one hopes she did not show disrespect in her questions and comments this day, it was not intended to be such...trying to put things to words sometimes tends to be a hard task in itself....and she wishes to say again that she is so happy to have returned home and it was more than great to see you all again

    Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL. and with that, I will take My leave.... too long in one spot for this old bag of bones....LOL.. Be Well, all.... galah, heal girl.... kissing a finger and touching jasma's head, and then standing to make My way to the door.... " May Wodin the one eyed watch over My home when I am gone, and smile on all that enter it...." Farewell, all.....

    va`lain~~~ va thanks All for allowing her to enter and particiapte in the Forum ~s~

    jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~placing the writing instrument down finally as she tried to get all pertinent information in the notes.. softly~
    slave thanks You Master Shadowglade for such an interesting forum tonight and for allowing one to continually learn..

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