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New Captains and an Advisor named
What motivates a v/t Gorean?
Following the books/realism
The Piazza?


New Captains and an Advisor named

Rollo the Ax~~~ Before tonights forum gets started, there is a bit of business that needs attended to....... So if Shadowglade, Ceredigawn Durst, and Lemuel will come and stand before Me, I'll take care of it .......

Lemuel~~~ ~rising from My seat in the furs and walking to the dais to stand before the Captain~

Shadowglade~~~ *glancing to the senior Captain questioningly as I stand, and step in front of Him*

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Hearing the Captains words, He quickly grabs His tunic, throwing it back on and walks over to the Captains chair and stands before Him.*

Cernus~~~ sits and watches and listens

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening to Master Rollo.. watching.. then looking to the Scribe, Master Ruilan.. lowering liquid gems along His frame.. then back up.. winking swiftly before turning to watch Master Rollo once more~

lara{HoS}~~~ she straightens herself up and sit quietly watchin her Master

marissa{HoS}~~~ ::watching to see what is going on::

Rollo the Ax~~~ Then bringing My attention back to the men before Me, I lift myself from My chair, and stand ..... Looking about the room I speak in a clear and loud voice.... ** These Men have all shown their devotion and willingness to work for and defend GS in all manners.... and so it has been decided that they should be rewarded...... *

Lemuel~~~ ~listening as the Captain speaks~

Cernus~~~ now really pays attention

Rollo the Ax~~~ turning first to Lemuel..... You are here by invited to become an Advisor to the Council of GS... and to have all rights and duties that come with such..... do You accept ????

aandra{Cernus}~~~ *sits up straighter, listening intently to Master Rollo*

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Smiling as He hears Rollo's words to Lemuel.*

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening to Master Rollo speak.. looking to Each that are standing before Him.. a smile touching along lips.. ~

Mandi~~~ ~~looking toward Lemuel~~

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding solemnly to the Senior Captain~
Aye, I do accept this Honor.

aandra{Cernus}~~~ *smiling, full lips slightly parted, hearing Master Lemuel accept*

lara{HoS}~~~ she smiles brightly as she listens to Master Rollo...so happy for the great Masters..

marissa{HoS}~~~ ::smiles as she watches the ceremony::

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding to the Builder grinning at Him*

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~hearing Master Lemuel's words.. dark gems dance in the room.. happy for Him.. she turns to watch Master Ruilan depart.. brushing a kiss to Him.. she listens once more~

Rollo the Ax~~~ Then so be it.... let it be known that Lemuel has been voted on by the Captains of GS and is now an honored Advisor to the Council.... Welcome to the Council, Lemuel....

Lemuel~~~ ~smiling at the Captain I offer Him My hand~
My thanks, Captain Rollo.

Rollo the Ax~~~ Extending My hand..... Congrats, Lemuel... Now the work REALLY begins.....LOL...LOL..

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling at the Senior Captain's words and nodding~

Mandi~~~ Congratulations, Lemuel.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to the Free Woman~ Thank you, Lady. ~S~

Shadowglade~~~ *letting out a deep belly laugh as I hear Rollo's next words about the work*

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Chuckling with the Men that stand with Him.*

Rollo the Ax~~~ After releasing Lemuel's hand, I turn further, and face Shadowglade and Ceredigawn Durst.... And now to You two..... for some time now, You have both been Advisors to the Council.... both worked hard and long to keep GS strong and safe.... have shown time and time again your honor and devotion to OUR home... and so, as Senior Captain of the Council of Gorean Shores, I now offer you, Shadowglade, and you, Ceredigawn Durst, the positions as FULL Captains on the Council of GS..... Do you accept ?????

Cernus~~~ looks to Shadowglade ...big smiles

marissa{HoS}~~~ ::happy wiggles for The Masters as she hears Master Rollos words::

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening to each word spoken by Him.. looking to Master Durst and Master Shadowglade.. ~

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Hearing the Captain's words, and smiling.* Aye Captain. I accept. It is a great honour...

aandra{Cernus}~~~ *eyes twinkling, looking to the Masters, smiling*

lara{HoS}~~~ she looks to her Master as she listens...so happy for Him...

Lemuel~~~ ~grinning at the Men beside Me~

Shadowglade~~~ * A slow grin creasing My face as I hear Rollo's words* Captain, I have made GS My home not once, but twice in My time on Gor...and even when I made My home elsewhere, it was to GS My eyes looked when I thought of home...I was elated when I was able to return to it, as it has always been more of a home to Me than anyplace that I have called such, and so...I gladly accept this honor, Captain, and pledge My undying loyalty, and devotion to THIS, My only home on Gor......*a tear forming in My eye as I grin at My old friend*

Cernus~~~ looks to Shadowglade with even more respect then when He took My pledge

aandra{Cernus}~~~ *hearing Master Shadowglade's words, a girl's heart swells, to hear such words from One, truly honored to have met Him*

Rollo the Ax~~~ A wry smile coming to My old face.... * Aye, it may be an honor, but it is also a duty that may at times may ask more from Us than we are feel we can give.... * Myself and all the other Captains have watched and waited... and as is the rule, this vote had to be unanamous... So know You both that You each have the FULL support and confidence of your now, Brother Captains..... ** placing a hand on each mans shoulder... WELCOME, BROTHERS !!!!!

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~softly~ the tavern wench offers her congratulations, Master Durst, Master Shadowglade and Master Lemuel

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *A new emotion taking over His body, as He hears a Man He deeply respects call Him Brother, He can only manage a nod and grin at the Captain in acknowledging Him.*

aandra{Cernus}~~~ *amber eyes full of light, looks up*
A girl offers congratulations to the Masters Shadowglade, Lemuel and Durst*

Lemuel~~~ ~turning and smiling at the first girl with a wink~

Shadowglade~~~ *Grinning broadly as I remember a time long ago, when I requested Rollo's permission to call Him Brother, and remembering as well, That He said it would be earned, and am happy to have earned it* The Honor makes the work worthwhile, Brother...I thank You, and the other Captains for Your confidence in Mine, and Durst's abilities...I shall do all I can to bring Honor to Myself and My Brothers on the Council...

Shadowglade 19:55:26 CST

Shadowglade~~~ *smiling and nodding to those that offer their congratulations*

Rollo the Ax~~~ Now, as full captains you both have an equal vote on ALL matters that come before the Council...You already sit on the dais, but now you do so as CAPTAINS.... you have equal shares in all that the Council owns....the tavern, the slaves... and any profits that we make from either.... LOL..LOL..( and you drink for FREE now also....LOL... but try to leave enough for the patrons...LOL.. and as for the kajira ??? try to not * eat up * all the profits there either.....LOL...LOL... Roaring with laughter as I slap both men once again on the shoulders....LOL )

shirin{SholGar}~~~ ~*~emotion and smiles of happiness as she hears the announcements~*~

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Smiling as He hears Shadowglade's words, and nodding in agreement.*

Cernus~~~ Grins at Rollo's remarks

Lemuel~~~ ~clapping the two new Captains on the back~
Congratulations Shadowglade and Durst!

Asellus~~~ *She beams brightly for the newly titled Free Men, now Captains of the tavern*

Shadowglade~~~ *Laughing loudly with the senior Captain* Well, since I am a Captain now, My friend, Might I suggest We get better Ka~la~na? This stuff We keep stalked gives Me a headache...*chuckle*

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Chuckling Loudly as He turns to look at jasma and give her a wink, then turns back to Rollo.* Aye, although it will be hard...

Rollo the Ax~~~ Finally turning to all those in the tavern, and raising My hands above the heads of CAPTAIN Shadowglade, and CAPTAIN Ceredigawn Durst...... * I present to one and ALL, the NEW Captains of GS..... *

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~blushing as she sees the wink~

Cernus~~~ standing and clapping My fist to My warrior breast plate

Lemuel~~~ ~clapping My right hand to My left shoulder repeatedly in applause~

marissa{HoS}~~~ grinning widely as she looks at all three of Them:: congradulations Master ::happy wiggles::
congradulations Master Durst and Master Lemuel

Cernus~~~ looks towatrds the Captains....Tal Sardar Gor

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Turning around to all that are present, catching the eye of the Lady Asellus, His navy blue eyes acknowledging Her and smiling, then eyes scanning the rest of the tavern*

SholGar~~~ ~looking to Durst and Shadowglade~
I wish you both well in your new responsibilities...congratulations.....and I second the motion on the kalana...~LOL~

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding and smiling to T/those that have offered congratulations~

Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL... Well, if Y'all want better stock, I guess it will fall to You to now see that such is * found * or bought for OUR home.... aye Brother ??? LOL..

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ~**smiles and speaks softly**~ Congratulations to both of you, Masters.

shirin{SholGar}~~~ ~*~the loud thundering applause of Men making a girl feel so small and so happy as GS grows!~*~

Cernus~~~ Aye Kalana the wine of our planet

Asellus~~~ *Her eyes twinkle vibrantly beneath the shadowy coverings of Her hooded cloak as She manages to catch Ceredigawn's eye amidst the congratulatory applauses. She nods Her head and beams brilliantly*

Shadowglade~~~ *LOL* Aye Brother, I'll get right on that...*thinking that I can probably move about half My private stock here in the next couple of days, and remembering with a sly grin where I "happened" upon it*

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Chuckling at Rollo's words again.* Aye Bro...guess Shadowglade needs to do some kalana shopping.

Shadowglade~~~ *laughing even louder as I hear Durst speak of shopping* SHOP? Not a chance...I don't own five green ram ships for nothing Durst...*chuckle*

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling as I step to retrieve My staff and return to take a seat on the dais~

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ I meant shopping as in taking what You feel is Yours....*chuckles*

Lemuel~~~ ~laughing at the comments about *shopping*~

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Moving back to His seat, He settles back into His chair.*

Cernus~~~ I hear that the Kalana wine in the city of Ar is excellent

Mandi~~~ Claire used to import some very nice kalana.

Shadowglade~~~ *following the Builders up to the dais, I take My seat at the Captains' table*

SholGar~~~ Just don't bring back any "bluelight special" kalana....~L~ If You do I propose the slaves serve it to visitors!

Shadowglade~~~ indeed it is Cernus...indeed it is....*G*

Rollo the Ax~~~ Looking about...seeing the joy and happiness that fills My home, I smile... and slowly make My way to the door.... * I must now take My leave once again... My RT requires that I go now.... but please continue with the forum and the celebrations...... Be well, all.....

Cernus~~~ lol Sholgar

Shadowglade~~~ *leaning over to the new Advisor I whisper to Him quietly*

SholGar~~~ ~smacks My lips~ Is there a topic for this evening or can We send the girls to the servery to bring on the beverages? ~S~

SholGar 20:19:44 CST

SholGar~~~ Tal Lemuel and congratulations...well deserved!

Asellus~~~ *She grins beneath Her veils and acknowledges Lemuel's greeting with one of Her own*
Tal, Lemuel. Congratulations~~

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What motivates a v/t Gorean

Shadowglade~~~ *LOL* Well, it IS a forum night....Lemuel...why don't You kick us off?

Lemuel~~~ ~smiles~ Well, let's get this show on the road! Anyone with a topic?

Cernus~~~ to new here and still in awe to think of a topic

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *knowing that Asellus had one from last week.*

aandra{Cernus}~~~ *sits quietly, listening*

Lemuel~~~ ~smiles~ There was a topic left over from last week.
What motivates (or should motivate) a v/t Gorean?

Asellus~~~ *She nibbles upon Her lower lip hearing Her question being asked, yet knowing She may not be able to stay much longer to hear the replies...She shifts in Her kneel, a bit antsy*

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ja would have to say, Master Lemuel, in her opinion, what should motivate a v/t Gorean is either a sense of fun but still adherr to the rules, or the Gorean philosophy if you take it more seriously.

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening to the question posed.. then hearing ja's response.. nodding head~

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ Well I think everyone has there own motivation, whether it be to make new friends, enjoying the fun of roleplaying, or spending time with the kajira.*EG* Personally I enjoy the tavern atmosphere, and it lets Me escape from r/t. Its fun and it releaves stress...Most of the time...*S*

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at ja'dain's answer~ Aye, if it isn't fun I don't know why else O/one would do it. ~chuckles~

Shadowglade~~~ Hmmm...what motivates (or SHOULD) motivate a VT Gorean? Im not sure that is a question that has but one answer...what motivates many may not motivate some...as for what SHOULD motivate...*chuckle* that's rather a loaded question....I have My opinions on that..but let's face it...they're still only opinions...

SholGar~~~ ~looks to Durst~ I agree....it's nice to slip away from rt and fret over the source of kalana....~L~ We are blessed with fine sluts as well...spirited and pleasing to the eye...

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ Neither does ja, Master Lemuel ~**smiles**~ One of the reasons she stayed away for a while was because it was not fun anymore, and she gets her fill of serving in rt. Didn't need to come in to get that craving satisfied.

Cernus~~~ aye Sholgar and this Stone be more livelier than the one I was at before

Asellus~~~ Oh, but I don't think many can attest to a time where one enters the tavern worryfree all the time....there is always something or someone who will "test" another. Not even VT is free from all stress. *chuckles lightly*

marissa{HoS}~~~ one mainly keeps coming because she has a strong need to serve and to be pleasing that she can not get filled any other way because of her physical inabilities. for her it is a very simple answer to a very simple question.

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening to the sage words of Mistress Asellus~.. aye Mistress.. one agrees with You..

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to Shadowglade~ Aye, part of it is a desire to be with people that share One's viewpoint or outlook on life.

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ~**nods in agreement with the mistress**~

Asellus~~~ *Chuckling again* But if disgruntlement and heated discussions turns one on, then by all means.....*shaking with laughter*

SholGar~~~ "fun" is a big part of it...tested or not...time online should be fun...why the hell would someone suffer through a bad day just to extend it with lousy time online? The key folks is that the "people" make the difference....I think W/we have good people.

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Looking to the Lady* Aye Asellus, as a FW you can be tested constantly. I on the other hand, rarely get upset...rarely...Everyone has a temper, sometimes emotions can get the best of You...Most of the time, what motivates Me to return to the tavern, is the great people and atomsphere.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to Lady Asellus~ True, but One can always leave if things get too unpleasant v/t - r/t that is not always an option. But some enjoy debating various aspects of Gorean philosophy as well, so it is not really *stressful* for them. ~smiles~

Shadowglade~~~ That is true Advisor...however, I would be hardpressed to find ANY two people who's viewpoint is completely shared...*chuckle*

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ But where does fun end and disrespect begin? It's a thin line at times. Some people come here for fun, and forget that there are people who take this very seriously in rt as well. We all come here to have *fun*, but there must be a respect for the philosophy as well, even if you might not agree with it 100%.

Asellus~~~ *Smiling to Herself, thinking of a particular "test" this afternoon* The thing is to not let things like that get to One. My Freedom and these veils are big motivators for Me. *s*

Shadowglade~~~ *chuckling as I nod again to Lemuel* Aye...I have known a few who seem to get some grand enjoyment out of being contrary for the sake of a discussion....*chuckle* I have always found that rather irritating, but that is just Me...*chuckle*

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to the Dark Warrior~ Aye, true...thus the debates. ~G~

Asellus~~~ *Nodding at ja'dain's enlightening words* Very true. Distinction [between respect and fun] is another topic that many debate about.

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening quietly to the opinions offered~

SholGar~~~ agrees with ja...it gets back to the people....hopefully there are more good ones than bad ones.

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *looking to the Lady.* Aye I know...

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ What gets ja'dain are the people who come in here, learn a few Goreanism, then proceed to fur anything in sight. They play at being masters. That offends ja'dain, just as it would probably offend true Christians if ja'dain was to play at being a Christian follower.

Asellus~~~ Well, then I wonder what is everyone's definition of a good time in the tavern? Less philosophizing on the books and more creative "improvisation" or vice versa? Out of general curiousity....

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding to SholGar's words* Aye, hopefully, but unfortunately that is not always the case.....

Asellus~~~ Good analogy, ja'dain.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to ja'dain~ Aye, I believe in respecting the opinions of O/others ... as long as they don't try to forvce Me to conform to what they believe anyway. ~G~

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ A healthy balance of both is what ja'dain thinks, Mistress. Too much serving the same thing can get tedious as can gagging on book quotes.

Shadowglade~~~ I think a good balance of the two would be the most acceptable Asellus...*shrugs* but that again, is My opinion....

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ Thanks, Mistress, was the only thing ja could think of ~**laughs softly**~
ja'dain feels the exact same way, Master Lemuel. She does not try and force her opinions on others...but when in Rome....

Asellus~~~ That should be a key motivator, then, I feel. A balance of both worlds. *nodding at the similar replies that reflect Her own thoughts.*

Lemuel~~~ ~smiles at the Lady~ My idea of a good time is talking with the people in the tavern, getting an occasional serve. ~S~

SholGar~~~ ~sighs~ you are right ja but this is a room where people can come and go at their leisure...I sympathize with you but I can't think of a way to screen out the undesirables. We can only hope to make them feel unwelcome and hope they leave or change their behavior.

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ That's the only way, Master SholGar ~**smiles**~ ja'dain is always available to help others learn, or be a bitch if they refuse to take anything seriously...lol

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~brushing back an errant strand as she lifts eyes from the rence paper.. listening to the words as they're spoken.. she goes back to scribing~

shirin{SholGar}~~~ ~*~giggles at her sis ja, eyes twinkling~*~

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Nodding in agreement with the Asellus and Sg*

Asellus~~~ *Listening quietly to the silence and then jasma's scribbling with a smile beneath Her veils*

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ Aye, I think there are many here that are more than willing to offer help if it is desired, but some refuse to be helped. Not much can be done with them. ~shrugs~

Shadowglade~~~ *chuckle* in such cases Advisor, I've found it's not what can be done WITH them as much as it is: What can be done TO them....*chuckle* steel to the gut can alway cure one of being excessivly annoying....

Lemuel~~~ ~LOL at Captain Shadowglade's words~ Aye, there is that. ~laughs~

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Following the books/realism

Lemuel~~~ ~S~ Ready for the next topic then?

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ Yes, Master Lemuel ~**smiles**~ ja's ready.

Asellus~~~ What was your question / topic, ja'dain?

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ Master Lemuel's got it, Mistress Asellus ~**smiles softly...not wanting to be a bother**~

Asellus~~~ *She chuckles, shifting again in Her furs, listening eagerly*

Lemuel~~~ Here it is:
Do we have to follow the Gor books as strictly as some follow the bible, or can they just serve as guidelines as long as the philosophy holds true?

Asellus~~~ *Timid about answering the question, for it may come back to haunt Her*

Lemuel~~~ ~S~ This topic was discussed a bit in other forums. I don't think it is necessary to follow the books to the exclusion of new ideas. As long as it stays within the framework of the books I think it is o.k. ~smiles~

Shadowglade~~~ I would say the latter more than the former....if one holds true to the philosophy, and builds off of it...without completely losing the original idea....then I think perhaps one is doing alright....but if We were to follow the books verbatum, there would be no FW here, at least not as often, nor would alot of Us even exist here...

Asellus~~~ *Shrugging, She responds*
I feel that it is safe to say that nobody can follow the books rigidly. (Assuming you mean in a VT environment)

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ Hmmm...*hearing the question* Well I think that they are more guidelines..although everyone has there opinion on what should be followed exactly according to the books.

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ja'dain thinks, that as long as the philosophy holds true, and the things you are doing are realistic and could be done in rt...she sees no fault in diverting here and there from the books. For instance, pouring burning hot paga down your body during a serve is not realistic.

Asellus~~~ But...then....wasn't the Free Woman ratio greater than that of slaves, Shadowglade? *blinking a few times thinking that it was so in the books....not entirely sure*

Asellus~~~ Besides, one never knows what may change until the next issue of the series is penned by Norman Himself. *S*

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ~**nods in agreement with the Master Captain**~ True, Master Shadowglade. If we do not build Gor, it will stagnate online, BUT we still need to hold to the philosophy, otherwise it's not Gor anymore.

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~nodding head as mistress speaks of the ratio of FW to slaves~
aye Mistress.. 40:1.. if a girl remembers correctly from Beasts of Gor..
~whispering~.. very true ja

Lemuel~~~ ~smiles, nodding~ Aye ja' - then there is the practice of *sweetening* the rim of a Master's drinking vessel. This is not in the books and I personally wouldn't want it done, but it should be up to the Master, I think.

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ Aye Asellus...true...*smiling at Her*

Asellus~~~ *smiling at jasma* Thank you.

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ But it's not realistic, Master Lemuel. Think about it, a paga slave, having served x number of men in the alcoves, rarely a moment to wash up afterwards, would it really be realistic to sweeten??????

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at the ratio jasma gives~ Aye, that is what I recall as well.

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckles~ Everyone has different tastes, ja' - As I said, I wouln't want it but some may. ~shrugs~ And it wouldn't be very realistic with hot beverages, wouldn't want to damage the kajira. ~S~

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~looking over to Master Lemuel on the dais.. whispering~.. a girl thought so Master..
You're welcome Mistress Asellus..
~shifting on heels as the thoughts of sweetening the rim is brought up and listening to jas response.. nodding head~

jaz found the quote on the ratio

“Are most Gorean women slaves?” she asked.
“No,” I said. “Indeed, statistically, in those parts of Gor with which I am familiar, very few. Commonly only one woman in, say, forty or fifty is a slave. This varies somewhat of course, from city to city. The major exception to these ratios is the city of Tharna, in which almost every woman is a slave.” I looked at her. “There are special historical reasons for that,” I said.
“But over a large population,” she said, “there would be literally thousands.”
“Of course,” I said.
Beasts of Gor, page 246

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ Yepp, that's another issue, Master Lemuel. To "sweeten" a piping hot paga....ouch! ~**winces and presses her thighs tightly together**~ It's tender down there...

Asellus~~~ There are so many deviations from the books....but don't they all begin with truly good intent? I wouldn't go so far as to call the deviation a deliberate blasphemy against Gor....it might be frowned upon, of course....*thinking*

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ There are deviations and there are deviations, Mistress, in ja's opinion. For instance, there's no way in Hell that free women would have been allowed into a Port Kar paga tavern and be treated as well as those are here, let alone become Advisors to the Council, but...it works here and it's not a bad thing.

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Nodding and agreeing with the lady once again.* Aye Asellus...

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling~ At best I'd say that *sweetening* is borderline. Then there is the so-called *Gorean Language* that cannot be found in any of the books...I think this crosses the line. There is enough truely Gorean words in the books without having to invent new ones.

Shadowglade~~~ Well, as for the issue of sweetening...I will admit, when I was too ignorant to know better...I rather enjoyed the show when a girl would do it...but I have to say as I have been on Gor, and grown with it, I find the idea rather distasteful for the very reasons ja has stated...and don't think it really a part of Gor that should continue...*shrugs* but that is MY opinion...*chuckle* I think it as much as an abberation as it has been called, as something could be...much like the pseudo Gorean language that sprang up all over online Gor...*shrugs*

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~looking up once more as she thinks of something~
and if pouring a beverage along one's body to hope to make it into the container between thighs.. it just wouldn't happen realistically.. it would look more like one had wetted on themself.. ~nodding head and going back to the scribe work~

Asellus~~~ I understand, ja'dain, and that is one factor I have mulled over in My brain. Still, perhaps not in a paga tavern, but at least in the City itself. And it's a thin line because all interactions and chat rooms take place in a VT tavern....

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ~**nods vigurously in agreement with Master Shadowglade and Master Lemuel**~ The pseudo Gorean words make ja see red.

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ~**chuckles at jaz and nods**~

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ Aye ja, most paga taverns would be closed to Free Women, especially in Port Kar, but there was mention in the books about *Family* oriented paga taverns. In Kajira if I remember correctly. ~S~

shiri{EK}~~~ lol jasma

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Laughing at jasma's words.* That would take much skill girl.

Asellus~~~ *chuckling at jasma's words and nodding at the words of the Men*
Indeed, but it is difficult to know the difference when One isn't familiar with all the books. All the words are strange! *L*

BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ Ack, that's one of the few ja hasn't read, Master Lemuel.

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The Piazza?

Asellus~~~ *Gazing at Lemuel in wonder*
A family oriented paga tavern?? Now I can see how that could become taken out of context and misconstrued....

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding at Asellus' words* Indeed Lady it is almost laughably ironic how online Gor only exists in Taverns...*chuckle* Though I think that it could be remedied right here in Poolside by opening a private room as another part of Port Kar...perhaps a market place, or (if it EVER happens) the Piazza....

Asellus~~~ *Nodding at Shadowglade* Yes...I agree.

Lemuel~~~ ~S~ Aye, the Tatrix wished for Her protector to take Her to a paga tavern and He mentions that it might be possible to take her to one of the tamer ones.

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening~
aye Master Lemuel.. it was spoke of a bit in Kajira of Gor.. jaz believes she recalls as well

"Should I wish to enter a paga tavern, for example," I said, "you will accompany me."
"In most paga taverns," he said, "free women are not permitted. In some they are."
"I see," I said. To force an entry to such a place, I then understood, might necessitate an altercation, one perhaps ensuing in the exposure of my identity as the Tatrix. A common free woman, for example, migh simple be forbidden to cross certain thresholds.
"Too," he said, "even if commanded, I could not knowingly lead you into danger, for example, into certain sections of the city at night. It is my duty to protect the Tatri, not to place her in jeopardy."
"You are an excellent guard, Drusus," I said. "You are right, of course."
"I could take you to a tavern in which families are served," he said.
"It was not such a tavern I had in mind," I said.
Kajira of Gor, page 122

Asellus~~~ *Listening to Lemuel then thinking that the Piazza idea makes a bit of sense*

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Maybe that is the thought We had when creating the Piazza?

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ Aye Captain, what ever happened with that idea?

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *chuckling as the Ladies words are the same as His, thinking GREAT MINDS do think alike*

Shadowglade~~~ I think it likely Brother....*nodding to the builder* However, there are "Kalda Taverns" in the books too, where many of the lower castes would meet to relax after a hard days toils, and they were considered "tamer" weren't they Advisor?

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening~.. a girl believes that there are other Gorean chat sites that are not just in paga taverns.. inns, homes, the barrens, camps.. etc..

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ Well it's in the rooms to go to...I think We never really followed it up..*Making a mental note to follow it up*

Shadowglade~~~ apparently Lemuel...Gary M hasn't discovered a way to make it work as yet...*chuckle* though I haven't heard...it's an idea for Us as a Council to persue...you think?

Lemuel~~~ ~scratching My head~ I'm not sure if they were much tamer, Shadowglade. The only ones I remember are from Outlaw and I believe it said that Free Women would not frequent them.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ Aye Shadowglade, I think We should look into it more.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to jaz~ Aye, one of the sites in the forum rotation has several different rooms.

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckles~ Perhaps Captain. At least the Patrons of a Kalda tavern aren't as likely to be drunk. ~G~
And there were Free Women serving in the Kalda shop in Outlaw at one point...

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening quietly~

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding as I hear His words* Aye....

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *taking in the words of both Men.*

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~lifting eyes~
actually a girl thought.. that in Outlaw that the women serving towards the end of the book.. were all made slaves besides Lara.. and a girl doesn't remember if Linna was Andreas's slave or not..

Lemuel~~~ ~S~ I think that the original piazza idea is fine though. Kind of a *café* atmosphere outside with more *hard core* serves inside.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to jaz~ Aye, Lara was certainly Free. I'm not sure if there were others or not.

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding* It is an idea I didn't support at first, but I must say, I believe it a better place for newcomers to start...it gives Them time to learn the various customs that They will be expected to know when they enter the Tavern...

marissa{HoS}~~~ ::nodds her head as she agrees with her Master about the piazza::

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ Aye, it would work best if the Tavern proper could only be entered through the piazza. That way newcomers could be *screened* so to speak.

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding* Aye, and I think THAT is what has been holding it up, as Gary has been trying to make it so that that will be true...however..I don't know if His current platform will allow for that....*shrugs*

Lemuel~~~ Hmm...there are links all over the page. Maybe He could put a *hidden* link on the page?

jasma{GS~FG}~~~

Other girls now appeared among the tables, clad only in a camisk and a silver collar, and sullenly, silently, began to serve the Kal-da which Kron had ordered. Each carried a heavy pot of the foul, boiling brew and, cup by cup, replenished the cups of the men.
Some of them looked enviously at Lara, others with hatred. Their look said to her why are you not clad as we are, why do you not wear a collar and serve as we serve?
Outlaw of Gor, page 226

Shadowglade~~~ perhaps Lemuel, but that would still not stop anyone from entering the Tavern proper directly...*chuckle* in fact, it would likely make people less aware that the two were connected...

Lemuel~~~ ~smiling at jaz~ Aye, and then she took a serving vessel and began to serve as well, I think.

Lemuel~~~ ~S~ I was thinking that the Tavern could only be entered through the link on the piazza page. Or, like the sub-board, bookmarked by regulars.

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ yes, Master.. she did.

To my surprise Lara removed her cloak and took the pot of Kal-da from one of the girls and began to serve the men.
Some of the girls looked at her in gratitude for she was free and in doing this she showed them that she did not regard herself above them.
Outlaw of Gor, page 226

Shadowglade~~~ SHUT UP....the rest of you talk too much....*chuckling as I wonder why Lemuel, jas and I are the only one with thoughts on this issue, as it truly affects us all*

Lemuel~~~ ~laughing~ Aye, it has gotten awful quiet.

marissa{HoS}~~~ one is here Master but she has not read most of the books as of yet so she can not make informed comments

Shadowglade~~~ Well, girl..*looking to marissa* I have not read most of the books either...merely about half of them...*chuckle* But even so...we're talking about the Piazza...does anyone have any idea's about suggestions We could make to Gary M about how it might be done?

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to marissa~ Knowledge of the books is not necessary to speak about whether the piazza idea should be persued, lil' one.

marissa{HoS}~~~ one had said that she agreed with You Master as it would be good to be able to teach the newer Folks the ways of the tavern before allowing them in further to get lost in the furring and things.

Shadowglade~~~ I think the problem He's having is roadblocking GS from the rest of the rooms, and I think perhaps another of Gary's concerns is that We may attempt to be too exclusive, and hurt His business....which is a valid concern...

Shadowglade~~~ *smiling softly to the girl* Aye, marissa it would be good...but how can it be done?

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ scripting for a chat.. the cgi code.. jaz isn't sure how any of that's done.. so she wouldn't be sure of what to *suggest* to GaryM, Master Shadowglade.. because alot of regular coding, she don't think is *allowed* or *used* when doing cgi script.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ Aye, that is an understandable point. We could help that by trying to recruit new members though...

Lemuel~~~ ~nods to jaz~ And I have no knowledge of programming web pages, so I can only make very vague suggestions...

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding to the first girl* I don't know jack about coding or cgi...but perhaps if we all brainstorm together, we might hit upon something He's overlooked...recently He's had a hell of a time getting this new icon loaded for Me....He finally discovered why it wouldn't work when I asked Him to change the password to this one from the password that was formerly shared between this and My old icon....apparently because of the two accounts having the same password, His system couldn't descern this icon and the old one, and merely placed the oldest one on every time I loaded it...

marissa{HoS}~~~ best way to do it without Making Master Gary have to do a whole bunch of code changes which are a pain in the behind Master is to use the shores as the entrance spot and the one that are selected as non hngs be given a private room name where the main tavern would be

Shadowglade~~~ so perhaps even though we might not know anything about cgi, and it's workings, we may be able to make a suggestion that would spark something in His imagination, and make it all work...*shrugs*

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ Sometimes good suggestions come from those that don't understand the *limitations* ~grins~

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding to marissa* that's one idea...though I don't know that everyone would wish to be displaced from GS....as this has been our home for some of us for a very long time....but it's a start....keep going...*ss*

marissa{HoS}~~~ cgi is a very complicated code Master perl is a hard thing to both learn as well as to program in. and perl is also very large and very repetative. believe me the more changes He has to make the more likely for the code to not only be buggy but also for the code not to work at all

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding* I can't imagine it's easy little one, or we'd all own chatrooms....*chuckle* somehow...what I personally would like to see is the Piazza as the entrance to GS...in order to enter GS, You have to go through the Piazza...now...that said, One would have to somehow roadblock GS from the rest of the site, would one not?

Lemuel~~~ ~thinking~ Is the *Members Only* room exclusive to people with memberships?

marissa{HoS}~~~ yes Master it would have to basically be made into a private room

Shadowglade~~~ Aye Lemuel....If one is not a member, One cannot even see it on the list.....*eyes lighting up as I hadn't thought of that before*

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ but then are we speaking of GS as going to be something like SI tried? a girl agrees that the main tavern should be a bit more stricter.. but having a *private* room for the main room then would seem that may be pushing it a bit.. her opinion only

Lemuel~~~ ~thinking some more~ Then GaryM already has one room seperate from the others...maybe the new Tavern room could be like that?

shiri{EK}~~~ **thinking a private room is an awful idea**
its hard enough to get people in here sometimes
going private will not help that at all

marissa{HoS}~~~ one does agree with sister on that

Shadowglade~~~ I can see those concerns jas....and shared them...but we're not going to that length where We restrict anyone We don't think is "Gorean" enough from coming into the Tavern...merely making everyone aware that there will be hardcore Goreans IN GS, and any breach of protocol would be grounds for virtual death....in other words, as per the Protocols as they stand though this one doesn't seem to be enforced :

"If you are new or unfamiliar with the concept of Gor, Gorean Shores Tavern is not recommended as the best place to learn. There are a myriad of other sites which claim to be Gorean which will welcome newcomers with open arms. If you desire nevertheless to visit Gorean Shores, which is located in the city of Port Kar, read these protocols and the other rules before venturing into the tavern. The Free Persons and slaves you encounter here take Gor very seriously, and do not tolerate those who come to play games. You will be expected to be Gorean while in the tavern. Failure to respect the Gorean ways and traditions will be considered a breach of these protocols."

Lemuel~~~ ~still thinking~ So he seperates them out by whether they have a password account or not now. If We gave GaryM a list of pledged Patrons could her seperate access to the tavern by account?

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~whispering softly~ jaz apologizes deeply.. but may another finish with the notes as a girl needs to fill out paperwork and then kennel.. 4:30 comes up awfully early..

marissa{HoS}~~~ but that will end up killing the shores Master. here we are in a battle to try and get more people in the shores

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~lowering dark gems~
yes Master Shadowglade..

Shadowglade~~~ Aye jas.....marissa see to the C&P please....

marissa{HoS}~~~ one will sister

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to jaz~ Aye, I can take notes from here.

Shadowglade~~~ you see though marissa, the Piazza...as part of the Tavern would draw all sorts of new people because the rules would be more relaxed...it would NOT be a KC zone...it would be a much less tense environment in which to learn...

Lemuel~~~ ~smiling at marissa~ Just thinking out loud here. Trying to see if there isn't a way to keep people from just stumbling into the tavern as it were.

jasma{GS~FG}~~~ thank You Master Lemuel
and you as well marissa..

Errand Knight~~~ well said My slave ....My thoughts exactly
GS will die quickly unless it encourages and Gary will wish Us to continue to attract people to learn of Gor

desiree{Algernon}~~~ if one might say something...she is very new and as such feels that she might offer a bit of insight...
it is quite intimidating to even visit here and not be fearful of saying or doing the wrong thing..so perhaps that is why many are afraid to venture in here....

Shadowglade~~~ meanwhile those more hardcore Goreans (you know the ones who get cranky about stuff that's not in the books) have a place where they can be hardcore without chasing folks away from Gor....

marissa{HoS}~~~ one knows what You mean Master but let her ask one question how many of the regulars do You think would be in the less strict room when they can be in the more gorean room?

Shadowglade~~~ *ss* I have heard it often desiree...and that is why the Piazza idea was originally put on the floor, as a remedy for that...thus GS does not need to lighten up, and there is STILL a room in poolside that is Gorean, where newcomers can learn without that feeling of intimidation....

Shadowglade~~~ to be honest little one, I would be traveling freely between both rather often....because I get pleasure from teaching those who would learn....and learning from those who would learn for that matter...*chuckle*

Errand Knight~~~ I know and desiree will confirm that conversation in other rooms here suggests a great many misconceptions about gor in general and GS in particular and it is intimidating even for Those rarely intimidated by anything
*chuckles*

desiree{Algernon}~~~ now....just as another thought or idea....
perhaps maybe an "open house" of sorts to invite those unfamiliar with Gorean Shores....to visit and observe freely

desiree{Algernon}~~~ ~laughing~ wondering if Master Errand Knight speaks of this one as not being easily intimidated?

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to marissa and then nodding at Shadowglade's words~ Aye, I would frequent both, but marissa does make a good point. It might be necessary to take shifts or something in the tame room in order for it to not be empty.

marissa{HoS}~~~ Master how about this as a suggestion make the two rooms but don't restrict people going into the shores do like what is done on gorean chat. have a milder version of gor with less restrictions in a way but not allow furring or sexual serve in there

Errand Knight~~~ thinks if you take the regular average attendance here and split it in two He will spend as much time talking to Himself vt as He spends doing so rt

Shadowglade~~~ *ss* We had a Feastival only a month ago desiree inviting any and all who wished to attend the festivities.....though few nonGoreans came....even though it was posted on the subs...*shrugs* I think there are those outside of GS that have their misconceptions, and wish to keep them...

Shadowglade~~~ *ss* that is the plan marissa...it's not a matter of restricting anyone from GS...but moreso a matter of making it clear to people that GS's rules won't bend, and the Piazza's will....and that they can enter at their own risk....

Errand Knight~~~ thinks open house events well publicised thru all rooms are a great idea

Shadowglade~~~ Tal Bla...and welcome....*chuckle* We're discussing getting Our Piazza up and running, trying to brainstorm some suggestions to GaryM about how it might be done...

marissa{HoS}~~~ that would also mean that Master Gary don't have to change the code as much

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ Open house events are a good idea too. Just being in the tavern helps attract people.

Shadowglade~~~ *nodding* All we're stating howver, is that to enter the Piazza one has to review the protocols of the Tavern, and be forced at least to be aware of them before they enter....*shrugs* wether they read them or not will be up to them...a matter of not having read the terms of agreement and merely agreeing to them...

desiree{Algernon}~~~ understanding the recent Festival that took place..this one still was not "comfortable" with attending...not understanding the ways of the room..however, if the "open house" was presented in such a way as.. "What You have always wanted to know but were afraid to ask" theme..perhaps it would instill a "comfort level" of sorts?

marissa{HoS}~~~ there would be another good thing about it too Master. we would not having things like what happened to her if the new slaves that have not found Masters yet stay in the Piazza

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ Aye, there would be no forced collarings, killing, etc. in the piazza.

Bla~~~ Wondered what the Piazza was . chuckles it takes Me to the sign in again

Lemuel~~~ ~S~ I think that about covers everything.
We'll close out the forum. Thank's to everyone for their opinions and participation. ~S~

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