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what happens to property when?...
The role of Consultants

what happens to property when?...

Lemuel~~~ Alright then, let's get this show on the road. Same rules as always...

First topic:

"if a Master decides he don't want to be a Master any longer and he owns slaves.. what should he do.. and what happens to the slaves?

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~listening as the first topic is offered up for discussion~

kanda{Sg}~~~ *kneeling back quietly..listening to the question put forth*

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ Well if He is a Patron of the tavern, should we be the first to get her? *Thinking more about the question*

Kayla~~~ I would guess that would depend if He purchased the slave from the the Tavern...
would hope that the Owner would not leave without taking care of all property and also offer up some kind of farewell for those left behind so that people who cared knew what happened...

Errand Knight~~~ To be frank I do not know
Common sense would tell me that if there is no protocol, I have a responsibility for those on My chain and should negotiate their sale....either individually to Others or to Slavemaster on behalf of GS

Rok~~~ as His personal property, it is His to do with what He would wish. That decision lies with Him.

Asellus~~~ Well, are we talking sheer "abandonment" here?? I mean, if the girls never hear from their Master not even in email...that would be a sure sign, I suppose. But without a word from the Master...and then if He returns spontaneously....and sees that His girls have new owners...I can't imagine that that would go over too well....*pondering*

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at the comments so far~
Aye, I think the best thing for Him to do would see about selling off His property and making farewells before He left.

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ See I was thinking abandonment as well Asellus, what time is set before a girl is technically abandoned though?

Asellus~~~ And even if the girl says she wants "out" I am willing to bet that there are stubborn Owners out there who would not oblige, even if He isn't around much any more.

Errand Knight~~~ I suspect the issue is more likely to be a problem if a Master simply disappears without notice ...after some time I would assume Council would make arangements for the kolar to be removed and for the slave either to become tavern flesh or be sold at a fair price to a Master

Lemuel~~~ I would think that the way the original question was worded that it was more One that is either choosing to leave, or to (perhaps) become slave.

Kayla~~~ 30 days with no contact the slave is considered abandoned

Errand Knight~~~ yea Ive been giving some thought to becoming a slave!
reaches for the paga to root out the terrifying thought

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~nodding at her Owner's words~.. when the question was asked of this one.. she had gathered it may mean a change in status for the Master..

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at E.K.'s words~ Aye, when it is clear that a Master has abandoned His property such arrangements are made.

Mandi~~~ I had thought that six hands (30 days) of zero contact constituted abandonment.

kanda{Sg}~~~ *speaks up quietly*
Master Lemuel...it is not seldom heard of that a Master wishes to be a slave is it? she imagines that would make it harder to answer because of that circumstance..

Mandi~~~ If One were to sell One's property as He sees fit prior to leaving, there should be no question about that, and the Council would have no business with it.

kanda{Sg}~~~ she has heard of Mistresses becoming slaves but never Masters..but imagines it could still be done..if He so desired it..

Kayla~~~ well if a Free is made a slave then the property becomes the property of the One that kolared the slave correct?

Lemuel~~~ ~nods at kanda~ Aye girl, I have only heard of one man that chose to become a slave after first trying to be a Master. If the man enters into slavery without selling off his property first, that property would normally then belong to his owner I think.

kanda{Sg}~~~ *listens to Mistress..nodding..thinking that sounds fair*

Kayla~~~ slaves sold by the Tavern to a Patron are to be offered back to the Tavern first if the Owner is going to sell the property... The Owner agrees to that stipulation at the time of sale

Rok~~~ *nods in agreement with Lemuel*

Mandi~~~ Aye, Lemuel. A FW's property belongs to the Man Who enslaves her, and I would assume the same thing would happen to the property of a FM becoming slave as well.

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~listening to kanda~.. there were male slaves in the books.. even Tarl Cabot submitted.. was captured.. etc and made slave.. but he also got his freedom back..
online.. a girl has seen where a Master has submitted before..
perhaps not as a common occurance.. but one has seen it happen

Mandi~~~ If a sale were commenced in contravention of that "first dibs" stipulation, though, would the Council actively act to vitiate the sale?

kanda{Sg}~~~ *nods at sis jas*

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ Aye Mandi, it's just less likely to be a *forced* collaring in the case of a man...

Errand Knight~~~ nodding in agreement with Kayla, recalling that it was so when He bought the girl then known as talender

kanda{Sg}~~~ *smiles when she hears talenders name brought up*

Lemuel~~~ ~shrugging~ I don't know Mandi. I think it would be examined on a case-by-case basis...

Errand Knight~~~ well I would imagine then if a Master decided to submit it would be His business to make arrangements for His property before He submitted and what he did would be His business whilst he was still a Master. If He did not do so, then His slaves would become the property of his new owner, unless a sale c0ntract stipulated a condition on resale (as with GS slaves who are sold)

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to the Physician~
Aye, and even if He is just leaving, He should make arrangements for the disposal of His property, IMO.

Kayla~~~ ~smiling as I listen to the comments of the Forum~

Asellus~~~ If he's not worried with the lot of his slaves after his submitting, then I suppose he was either not aware that they would become property of his new owner or else he did not care. *shrugs*

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Nodding and Agreeing with Asellus* Well said Asellus..

Kayla~~~ There have been times where People have disappeared and We never knew what happened to Them or why...

Mandi~~~ Actually, a transfer under an enslavement would not be a sale so as to invoke GS right of first refusal.

Mandi~~~ Property would pass to the Owner of the former Free in a manner similar to an inheritance.

kanda{Sg}~~~ kanda thinks that the slave would feel lost ..perhaps in limbo if that happened..if the Master did not consider her before and hadn't made plans for her..

Errand Knight~~~ aye, the roads can be dangerous for travellers
I hastened quickly when I travelled the northern forests lest a Panther group or Others lurked to prey on travellers

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ Aye, that is the way the agreement is worded Mandi.

heavenscent{S}~~~ *~knowing smile to kanda~* as this slut was abandoned.,before coming to GS years ago...

Asellus~~~ Certainly, kanda. But what can the girl do? Risk begging release from the new ko'lar?

kanda{Sg}~~~ no a girl does what a girls gotta do..sit patiently and wait.. and know that the matters lie with the Free..and trust in Them..



Paedur of Culai~~~ This Forum reminds Me of a queation I have on My list of questions. What happens to a slave when the Owner no longer takes care of them as He should, be it either through neglect, death, or ignorance?

Mandi~~~ Basically, the girls are slaves and have no rights, Paedur, other than claiming abandonment in the event of no contact after thirty days. That is still a pretty risky course of action to take.
But Noone promised the kajira's lot on Gor would be easy. No 40lK plan, no dental, and the retirement plan doesn't look attractive, either.

Lemuel~~~ It depends on the circumstances Paedur. If the Owner has actually abandoned their property the girl is usually taken into the Tavern collar until she can find a new Master.

Kayla~~~ Paedur...Well the guidelines of 30 days before declared abandoned is clear and death is kind of final other than that the Owner can treat the property pretty much as He deems fit. It may not be what I think is the way a slave should be treated...LOL... But Who am I to say how a person should treat thier own property?

Asellus~~~ *Nodding agreeably with Mandi*

Errand Knight~~~ Mandi: I do dental! *winks* though not much call for it

Paedure of Culai~~~ Nodding as I begin to understand a bit more, and also knows that rasies more questions. From the little reading I have finished, it seems though, that there is a kindness that is in some of the Gorean Masters, that would not let a slave simply die from neglect. How does a Master manage to be both caring and yet unconcerned? If there are no promises simply Gor?

Mandi~~~ I would think that if a Free has a track record of abandonment, neglect, or abuse, that it would affect that Individual's ability to acquire (or even be served by) slaves, at least as a practical matter in an online venue.

Asellus~~~ *Listening as Paedur asks a question and then listening for the responses from the Men*

kanda{Sg}~~~ and aye Mistress Mandi.. slaves have no rights..its true and maybe retirement plan doesn't seem quite right.. *grins* but there are so many benefits.. but they are things that can't be seen..just felt within a slaves heart

Elektra~~~ *nods in agrement with Mandi*

Lemuel~~~ ~thinking a moment~ In the books, and to My own way of thinking for online, a true Master is never *unconcerned* about His slave.

Paedur of Culai~~~ I am sorry to say that the idea of being abandoned, at least so far to My limited reading, is an idea that is thought well of. I mean I see the numbr of times Tarl goes back to save a woman who would always be His enemy. He released the slaves because He did not seem to believe that owning one was right. But I have to qualify that by saying I have only read the first book, so far.

Elektra~~~ *Nods* Yes, Lemuel...aren't slave girls supposed to be men's greatest treasures besides their weapons and tools of trade?

Asellus~~~ Of course, those books were written by one Man--John Norman.
Here, in online Gor, there are many "authors," so to speak...with alternate agendas and motivations....and, hey, even RT to deal with....*shrugging gently*

Lemuel~~~ ~grins~ Tarl changes quite a bit after the ninth book in the series Paedur.

Errand Knight~~~ aye I am deeply concerned for the welfare of any slave ...as I am for My dog. I would always look at alternatives before using a slave as hunting bait for example

kasandra{GS}~~~ if girl may an Owner would take care of His or Her property as it would be more costly to replace but if a girl is properly trained the Owner should not need to consern Themselves with the activitys of there property. They should know and expect the slave to behave in a manner wich would bring no dishonor to the kolar alowed them.

Paedur of Culai~~~ Tal Lemuel. I believe as You do in that a Master who has one, owns one, is never concerned, when He understands what owning one means, and accepts that responsibility of ownership. What I seem to be hearing though, is that an abandoned slave has no recourse, and the Master no responsibility.

kanda{Sg}~~~ *grins at Mistress Elektra..warm brown eyes twinkling..thinking yup...she likes them tools of trade Masters have,,,*

Mandi~~~ The books chronicle Tarl's conversion from Earthen Man to Gorean, with adventures and misadventures along the way.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to both Elektra and Asellus~
Aye, in the books it says that a man will treasure his slaves, get to know them in the smallest detail because he wants to own the *whole* woman, not just her physical body. But online there are people that know very little about the books or that just have their own ideas about the way things should be done. Also, the online medium requires certain compromises...

Elektra~~~ * LOL winks at kanda*

Paedur of Culai~~~ I see Lemuel, well I know that My journey to learn more of Gor, will not change Who I am, and how I see Masters and slaves. Actually I think it may help Me to refocus a bit. I see though I have much to learn.

kasandra{GS}~~~ Master Paedur kas does not belive a slave has any recourse for anything inflicted upon a girl by a Free. it is a slaves responsibility to simply accept the Free's will whatever that may be. there would only be something to answer for if another Free decided the Owners actions warented investigation.

Mandi~~~ There are different kinds of slaves as well in the books, ranging from slaves kept primarily for labor in a private Holding, slaves in Taverns, and the occasional "love slave."

Paedur of Culai~~~ So Lemuel and Mandi, is Tarls conversion the right way to go and become? Although I do not know what kind of Man Tarl ultimately becomes.

Mandi~~~ Good question, Paedur. But I'm not touching it. **chuckling softly**

Lemuel~~~ ~nods to Mandi~ True, there are mention of slaves that work in the mills and on the great farms that are seldom used or given much attention, but I think the books make it clear that the *ideal* is to have a love slave.

kasandra{GS}~~~ may girl respectfully say that each Master or Mistress must fined His or Her own way and what suits Them best.

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Hearing kas speak, and smiling* Aye girl...very good point, that is what makes each person unique from the next.

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling~ There's a Gorean saying to cover that Paedur...
"Don't ask how to live, instead proceed to do so."

Paedur of Culai~~~ kasandra, are you saying then that if I would presume ot be a Master here (which I do not claim to do), then I can simply do as I wish to a slave simply becase I presume to be a Master, and that you as a slave have to accept it. I am sorry but I do not prescribe to any of that. For a Master has to earn the affection and attention of any. It is not My right simply becasue I am a Warrior. It is the priviledge of being more that earns the ko'lar, I believe.

Errand Knight~~~ aye...and no reason why any pot and kettle slave might not fantisize of being a love slave one day, notwithstanding the reality

Kayla~~~ well since there will be no spaceship to capture Us and take us to Gor as what happened to Tarl then I think We all have to find Our own way in Our road to becoming Goreans ~grins~

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~quickly scribing the notes as she listens to all speaking~

Mandi~~~ Not every Master will find His love slave, and conversely, not every slave will be owned by a Master Who deems her as such. That a girl will be treated as a "love slave", however, seems to be sort of the "expectation" that gets dashed routinely online.

Elektra~~~ *I pound my left shoulder with my right fist at Paedur of Culai's words* Well said. For some, it is enough that they cap their names to think that that makes one a master.
I have met many men in my lifetime but few true men and fewer worthy of the name, "master".

Paedur of Culai~~~ So if Each finds His way, then what defines this lifestyle? If with in the confines of the words spoken here, there in lies no guides no rules, just wanderings.

Errand Knight~~~ defering to Elektra, not having had as many men in My lifetime

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to Mandi~ Aye, there are so many gamers and HNG's that it is often difficult for a girl to find a "love Master" online (same goes for a Master finding a "love slave").

kasandra{GS}~~~ Master Paedur You're statment is true. If You were to come here claiming to be a Master girl would submit to any treatment You desierd of her wich is alowed by the Council. Each Owner has there own set of restrictions, what there slaves are and are not alowed to do. with this in mined if You're wish was not something that was restricted by the Council aye girl would folow You're instruction. the essence of being a slave is not simply submiting but submiting in every way to any and all demands by the Free no matter what a girl may think as it is not her place TO think.

Paedur of Culai~~~ Kayla, there is a group of Texans that meet every year, hoping to be "beamed up". A small lift on My lips as a smile moves slightly over My face. Thank You Elektra, for to Me a Master is shown by His actions, not by simply being Big.

Kayla~~~ Honor and steel are the guidlines of a Man on Gor for the most part.... Each site has thier own set of rules that govern thier own site as far as some particulars.... Rules of Capture and combat for example...

kasandra{GS}~~~ most Free find Someone they respect and would like to be like, They try to emulate the Other and eventualy fined there own style.

Elektra~~~ *Warm Smile for Paedur_of_Culai* Then you are truly wise, warrior.

Mandi~~~ Paedur, when and where is the meeting? **chuckling**

Paedur of Culai~~~ Lemuel, just as many players as slaves as Masters.

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~brushing cheek affectionately against her Master's thigh as she listens to His words~

kanda{Sg}~~~ Master Paedur... kanda imagines that in each of U/us here there is a small part of U/us that wouldn't mind being beamed aboard so to speak..to actually experience Gorean life for O/ourselves like the Tarl in John Normans books did

Kayla~~~ I agree there are slave players around but when they find that Gor does not pamper to them they usually head away...



Lemuel~~~ ~nods at kas' words~
Aye, it is not up to a slave to decide who is a Master and who isn't. They must treat all "free" with respect no matter what.

kasandra{GS}~~~ that said Master Lemuel, there is a large difference between treating all "Free" with respect and actualy respecting Them if this one may be so bold.

Paedur of Culai~~~ Thank You Kayla. Mandi, I will get that information to You, as I have to e-mail a Friend who goes every year. kasandra, I feel that although being submissive is something that is with in each slave, submitting just because you have to , is a wrong way to look at it. one can serve, and not submit. Submitting is a gift to be given when One has earned it.

Mandi~~~ Lemuel, if it is not up to the slave, the one in the most close-up and personal position, to decide Who are Masters and Who are HNG's, Who does decide? And Who screens, if Any do?

Lemuel~~~ ~grins~ Aye, there is a huge difference lil' one. True respect is something that is earned.

Kayla~~~ Good distinction kas *ss*

Paedur of Culai~~~ There is a big difference between respectful and submission. I have been most of My life quite respectful, but only in the very beginnings of My life have I submitted.

Mandi~~~ There is the respect that any Free Who logs in should be accorded, dictated by protocol. And the respect earned over a period of time. Apples and oranges.

Lemuel~~~ ~looks to Mandi~ If there are individuals that make a nuisance of themselves the slaves can bring the matter to the attention of the Council and We will deal with it.

Paedur of Culai~~~ Thinking that maybe I have become a bit vocal before I have earned the right to speak too much. Settles to listen for a while.

kanda{Sg}~~~ *smiles softly at Master Paedur*

Lemuel~~~ As a reminder, any such problems should include a c&p of the incident(s).

Kayla~~~ Nods to the Captain's words...

Paedur of Culai~~~ Hears a soft whisper about My submission. Whispers back, well when I was a young boy, I submitted to My parents, and then to the Trainers I had to teach Me how to be a Warrior. Goes back to listening after whispering loud enough to clear that up.

Lemuel~~~ ~listening to the sudden quiet~
Anything else? If not are there any other topics for discussion? Whisper them to Me if there are.


The role of Consultants

Lemuel~~~ O.K. - here's a question I was asked:
What "authority" do the Consultants have over other Free? Free Men? Free Women? Or is the role limited to the input requested from the Council?

Kayla~~~ authority?... None... it is mearly that Thier opinion is respected in Council as well as they serve in a mentor status to others with advise that may or may not be taken...

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~offering~.. from the GS homepage.. policies and decisions..

to explain.... *** That FW on the Council of GS be called * Assistants and Consultants to the Council * ... The idea and reason being that Women on the Council be given a different title than * Advisor *... limiting their powers, to be seen not as equals to men, but still as valued Council members... making them LESS likely to be harassed or attacked. They would be seen to * Assist, Inform, and Help * but NOT enforce rules or policy any more than any other FW.. To have the ear of the Captains, but not * stand in * for them if push came to shove... (Although They could still run a forum or such..) But if trouble starts in GS, they could inform ppl of the rules and protocol, order slaves to do things to protect themselves as GS property, but if confronted by a man, to leave menís business to MEN and bow out gracefully ***

Asellus~~~ None over the other Free...Men or Women.
I think a title is just that--a title. We can all help each other in learning or with welcomed advice in some way or another sans titles. *shrugs gently*

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Kayla's words~
Aye, that was My understanding as well. The Consultants have no "authority" over any Free and limited authority over the Tavern slaves. They are to defer to the Advisors and Captains if any are present.

Kayla~~~ ~Nods to the post from the Home Pages and then Asellus's words~
Pretty much says it all ~grins~

Emerald Forest~~~ *but can Consultants still take pledges*

Kayla~~~ Heck defer to any Pledged FreeMan...LOL... No reason for any Woman to stick Her neck out when We have so many Men about ~winking~

Elektra~~~ *Smiles warmly at Asellus* I have learned much from you, Mandi and Kayla since I started coming here. I thank you all.

Mandi~~~ We have no formal "Mentoring" program, and it should probably stay that way. The informal mentoring We need We can seek from Those most appropriate to answer the particular question.

Elektra~~~ *Smiles at Mandi's words*

Asellus~~~ I would suggest that the Man find a Captain to pledge to, personally. It is what I would do.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to the Tarnsman~
Aye E.F. - if Any wish to pledge to a Consultant the Consultant can accept their pledge on behalf of the Council.

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Nodding at Asellus's words* That would be the best thing to do.

Kayla~~~ I believe that was coved by a post of the Senior Captain on the boards when someOne addressed that... But when He cleaned the boards that too was removed... But His answer was yes

Emerald Forest~~~ *but whats happens if there is no Captain around and He wishes to pledge staight away*

Emerald Forest~~~ *ok then*

Lemuel~~~ Then the Free Person in question can pledge to an Advisor or Consultant if They wish to do so.

Asellus~~~ If a pledge means "I'll come back often and frequently," then I am sure it could wait.
Why NOT pledge to a Captain as opposed to pledging to a Free Woman?

Paedur of Culai~~~ I can say that I have greatly valued the advisors here that have answered My numerous and at times endless questions.

Kayla~~~ Because the person pledging has respect with a FreeWoman and no problem that any Member of the Council Man or Woman as a representive of Our Home Maybe???

Lemuel~~~ ~shrugs at Aellus' comment~ That is up to the person pledging. If they *want* to pledge to a Consultant, why not? The pledge is not to the individual, but to the Council, why shouldn't any Council member be able to accept that pledge?

Emerald Forest~~~ *I suppose it all depends on the person then Asellus*

Paedur of Culai~~~ I thought the pledge was to the home stone?

Kayla~~~ I don't know why anyOne would have a beef with it as I have taken the pledges of some Men that are now on the Council and even a Captain ~grins~ I would say the Men are very much secure in thier place in life that such things are not so important as to the Who but the pledge itself that is important...

Asellus~~~ I am sure it would, Emerald Forest. *nodding too at Lemuel and Kayla*
Of course, I wouldn't be offended if One didn't pledge to Me either...so it doesn't matter. So long as the Consultants don't get picked on for doing so....doesn't matter to Me.

Lemuel~~~ ~shaking My head~ According to the Home pages, Gorean Shores exists in Port Kart *before* the Home Stone was found.

Kayla~<~~ If We had one it would be Paedur ~grins~ but that is in a later book ~grinning~

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ with respect a girl feels that perhaps since the Consultants still have the *ears* of the Captains.. as well as They're to assist, inform and help.. that one way in helping and assisting may be considered taking a pledge as well, when a Captain or Advisor isn't here to do so.. in a girl's opinion.

Kayla~~~ That would be a good time to advise a look at the Home pages and if that does not satisfy them give them the Council email addy... and let the Captains address the problem ~soft smiles~

Lemuel~~~ ~S~ I can't understand why anyone would have a problem with it Asellus. The person pledging *chose* to pledge to the Consultant. Pledges are never forced on Anyone.

Elektra~~~ *Listens with interest*

Errand Knight~~~ just as I choose to pledge before the Old Knarly Bugger ..oops...Rollo

Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling~ As did I E.K. ~grins~

Asellus~~~ *Nodding at Lemuel*

Mandi~~~ It's a totally Free choice, as to Who accepts a pledge on behalf of the Council. Though it would appear anomalous to have FW administering pledges to Men, no problem exists if that pleases the Men to have that option available.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to Mandi~ Aye, and nothing says the Consultant *has* to accept a pledge if She is uncomfortable doing so either. The person in question can always be directed to an Advisor or Captain.

Paedur of Culai~~~ Thank You for the clarification on pledging. Interesting information.

Kayla~~~ ~grinning thinking of One pledge I was really uncomfortable about and would not take~
This is true Lemuel...

Paedur of Culai~~~ If I may ask. I hear these words tossed about, and not sure the distinction of each one. The difference bewteen Consultant, Advisor, and Captain? AAre Consultants only Women, Advisor Men Who do not Fight, and Captains, elected or earned to Council Postion?

Mandi~~~ **smiling at the question, only a few lines visible around eyes above veils**

Emerald Forest~~~ *who dosen't fight*

Asellus~~~ I just see it as assisting a potential Pledgee by making sure that they *know* the Captains of the tavern first.
Are pledges ever denied?? Out of curiousity....?

Mandi~~~ Consultants are FW, as it was unworkable having a FW at the rank of Advisor, so it was recently changed.
Advisors are Men, and it is from the ranks of Advisors that new Captains are generally installed by the Council. Advisors do not get a vote in Council matters.
Captains are the only voting Members of the Council, and the selection process is up to Them.

Lemuel~~~ ~S~ Oh Advisors can still fight, Paedur. ~G~
The Consultants are Free Women whose opinions the Captains will listen to. The Advisors also give their opinions to the Captains and have limited authority in the Tavern. The Captains are the only Ones that can vote on any given issue.
All of this is on the Home pages BTW. ~S~

Emerald Forest~~~ *sometimes there are Asellus,it all depends on each person*

Mandi~~~ Paedur, I have only seen Advisors in "friendly" spars here, and they fight well.

Lemuel~~~ I can't think of any refusals to accept a pledge...

Kayla~~~ FW were not "unworkable as Advisors" but just were made targets of a few so the change in title was made to give Them some protection and to change the greeting order at the request of then current FW Advisors... Then voted on by the Captains in agreement.

Emerald Forest~~~ *there has been some Lemuel,but it goes with each person*

Kayla~~~ I can think of two refusals of Pledges since I have been on the Council...

Asellus~~~ Hmm. Interesting.

Mandi~~~~ There was a perception of a FW outranking Men that made that an untenable and unsafe position.

Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Mandi and Kayla~
There were some men that bristled at the idea of a FW having an *equal* title or position on the Council and others that didn't like that all Advisors were greeted before pledged FM, so to try and mollify these men We voted to change the title and powers alloted to FW on the Council.

Paedur of Culai~~~ Thanks for the clarification on the terms. There is much interpretation to the reading of the Home Pages as there is to the books Lemuel. U just wanted to understand how Gorean Shores views it. Pardon Me Emerald Forest, for I meant no insult about Advisors do not fight.

Kayla~~~ The perception was of a few ~shruggs~ but the change helped all I think ~smile~

Elektra~~~ *Raises eyebrows at Lemuel's words*

Emerald Forest~~~ *no insult taken Paedur S*

Emerald Forest~~~ *most of the men in here fight sometime or another Paedur S*

Lemuel~~~ ~smiles at Elektra, thinking she knows My feeling on men that have a problem with women in a position of authority~

Kayla~~~ ~smiling in agreement with Emerald's words~ even Builders ~looking to the Captains with a grin~ Darn good ones from what some of the Warriors say

Lemuel~~~ ~grins at Kayla and winks~

Paedur of Culai~~~ Thank You Emerald Forest. I suspect from what I have learned, Every Man fights here in some manner. Even if it is to tame a slave or two.

Emerald Forest~~~ *yea They keep wacking Us over the head with Their shafts LOL*

Kayla~~~ ~chuckling under the veils~

Lemuel~~~ ~looking to the water clock and checking it against the chronometer from My pouch~
Well, if there's nothing further...

Lemuel~~~ ...then I'll call this forum to a close.
I thank everyone for attending and making the forum so interesting. ~S~

Mandi~~~ Thanks for moderating, Captain.

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ thank You Master for allowing Yours to take part and learn..

Emerald Forest~~~ *not to shabby forum Captain LOL*

Kayla~~~ Thanks Lemuel ~

kanda{Sg}~~~ Master Lemuel..kanda thinks You did a good job with the forum..she thanks You for allowing her to enter this night so she may learn..