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FW needing a Protector Peeking into GS

FW needing a Protector

Rollo the Ax~~~ Well folks, should we get this forum going ??? LOL.. same rules as always... and to start off, we have a couple of carry over or preposted topics to start with, so here we go....LOL...

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~pulling out the rence paper.. listening~

shirin{SholGar}~~~ ~looks up shyly waiting for forum to begin~

Mandi~~~ **settling in to listen**

topaz{R}~~~ *eyes bright as she sits quietly, listening*

Rollo the Ax~~~ ANYWAY, our first topic... 1. What is the rule concerning whether or not Free Women need a "Protector?" There is the statement on the Home Page, which has not been the actual practice in quite some time. There is Captain Rollo's statement in a Forum a while back. Then there was Marius' recent post in response to the post about Molly's facestripping stating that FW need a Protector online in GS.

Mandi~~~ Yes, Captain, which of the statements takes precedence? It does appear to be a conflict and this is a rather important point.

Kayla~~~ ~grinning~ Well at the moment They seem to be hunted so at the moment it is not a bad thing....
But as You say it has not been a reality for a long time...
And to dig into the question further... do they need One every moment they are in the Tavern or just a name a Woman can say "See My Protector"

Rollo the Ax~~~ Okay... without taking the time to go find all three versions and compare them right now ( which would most likely take ME most of the forum..LOL..cause Rollo is SLOW..) I will offer * MY * understanding or position on the topic...

Mandi~~~ **listening intently for the Senior Captain's response**

Rollo the Ax~~~ We ALL would have to admit, to be honest, that expecting EVER FW to have a man there EVERY MINUTE to * protect * her, would effectivly keep FW out of the tavern MOST of the time.. So the way * I * understand the rule and wording is that each FW should have a male who agrees to be her * Protecter * should she require one... a REAL on-line man, not just a herd of * My guards outside waiting for Me * load of bosk dung...

Mandi~~~ Logically speaking, placing the FW under pressure to "find" a "Protector" puts Us in a very awkward position in here, in addition to the lines We already walk. We need to learn Who is trustworthy in this place and Who is not. And Who is knowledgeable and competent enough to provide Protection, and Who would pretend to provide it for the purpose of overreaching and exploitation. That takes a while to evaluate.

Rollo the Ax~~~ A FW could use such * non-entity * guards for a bit of role play, and such... but when push comes to shove, she had better have a REAL protector, willing to step in and defend her actions and position...

Asellus~~~ Or....maybe the FW could act accordingly and never have to worry about having a Protector? Just a thought....*casually offering*

Rollo the Ax~~~ Mandi, as *I* see it, or understand, a FWs protector need only be a man, *I* do NOT take that as requiring him to be pledged to GS.. Sure, it might be better in the long run, but as long as the guy is an honorable Gorean, even from another site, *I* see no worries about it...

DeathMate~~~ well put Lady Asellus

Mandi~~~ That is what I had assumed, Asellus, until some recent posts upon the board. That should be the case, but it may not be.

Kayla~~~ Asellus I hate to disagree but Men need no reason to FS or collar a Woman no matter how She acts... Then there is the matter of perceived wrongs... One Man may think winking is a collarable offense while another says no it is not... there are no stedfast rules for a FW to follow...

Mandi~~~ **chuckling softly at Rollo** R/t keeps that One offline, and most of those situations would not wait a few weeks for an appearance.
I have Friends who have specifically agreed to do so if necessary in here, but it does seem anomalous to accept the "Pledge" of a FW and not insure some level of safety in here as long as She behaves Herself.

Asellus~~~ This is Gor, Kayla. Shouldn't we have accepted this by now?

Rollo the Ax~~~ Also, in case it has not been changed on the Homepage yet, the Council voted to change the wording to make it require a vote of the Council, and not just One Captain, to make any face striping and capture of a FW official, in GS... Also, I, Myself, would like to think that ANY FW who really feels that she might be the target of a * terror campaign * from any man, could contact the Council and make Us aware of it so that we could get the details and step in if needed....

Kayla~~~ Aye and We have rules that if a woman's behavior is not becoming then she risks her freedom I am just worried about who's decides what is becoming... that the Council has last say is a good thing but it is a shame that Women are being harassed and feel like they can not enter GS without being on the arm of a protector

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~listening and offering~..
on the decisions page, though.. a girl don't see where it says.. it don't matter how a FW acts.. it seems stated that a FW's actions is what it goes by? (as in descriptive bahavior of what's appropriate or not.. hoping a girl isn't making any confused.. )

April 1, 1999
Item 6) It is noted herein that infractions by Free Women which would constitute valid grounds for force-collaring must be acted upon within a reasonable time after such incident occurs. Further, it is not mandatory that a Free Woman be collared if she acts or dresses inappropriately. Such force-collaring is at the will and pleasure of the Men present. Some Men are tolerant, some are not. The Free Woman accepts the risks incumbent with her activities when she acts in a manner inappropriate to her station.
To clarify what a force-collaring is: A Free Woman who is force-collared will be given the choice of either accepting said collaring and submitting herself to the Master as slave, or departing from the tavern permanently and being placed on a tavern ban. It is her choice. However, resistance from a Free Woman to a force-collaring is futile at best, and foolish at worst. A trained Gorean Warrior can easily overcome any defense by a Free Woman and strip and bind her before she can defend herself. Free Women exist in Gorean Shores at the will of Men. If the Free Woman has a guard and that guard is challenged under the Battle Rules, the guard is expected to accept the challenge and the Free Woman is expected to willingly submit to the challenger if her guard is defeated. If she does not, she will be banned.
Item 7) Free Women are not permitted to lap any man while in the tavern. Lapping will constitute inappropriate behavior which may subject the Woman to a force-collaring.

March 4, 1999
Item 3) It is the decision of the Council that no further warnings need be provided to the regular Free Women of the tavern should any of them act in a manner which warrants a forced collaring. All newcomer FW should receive at least one warning and be directed to the Homepage. If a FW is collared in the tavern, they will be given a choice to either accept the collar and remain in GS as kajira, or to leave GS never to return.

February 18, 1999
Item 1) Free Women are expected to abide by the Protocols of the tavern and the recommendations in the Gorean Shores Homepage. Failure to act in a manner consistent with a Free Woman's station in Gorean Society will result in a loss of protection in the tavern and may subject her to collaring if it so pleases a Master. In order to assist Free Women, the Captains, Advisors, and regular patrons will continue to educate and address newcomer Free Women to ensure their compliance with the protocols. Further, all Free Persons should continue to receive direction and guidance, where appropriate, on proper conduct in the tavern.

Asellus~~~ I've never felt that way, personally, Kayla. *shrugs, listening intently*

Kayla~~~ on the protocal pages jasma *ss*

Kayla~~~ I am truly glad You haven't but others are not so lucky

Asellus~~~ Perhaps the FW are entering the wrong tavern. It clearly states that "Free Women exist in Gorean Shores at the will of Men". This is a basic premise of Gor.
What will that part be changed to? "Free Women exist in Gorean Shores at the will of the Council"?
I'm just wondering. I'm neither opposed nor for changing the wording. Whatever. Just throwing thoughts out.

Rollo the Ax~~~ Okay, it seems that a bit of plain talk may be needed here... the recent face striping of Molly may have some of you FW a touch worried, let Me say that the rule about it NOT being Official until the GS council voted on it, was made and invoved on it, so it was not just ONE mans final say... It was an action LONG time coming... as for the actions of other FW ???? EACH and EVERY face striping, IF done in GS, will also be subject to a VOTE of the Council.. My advice or comment to FW ??? Is the same I give EVERYBODY... "" Do what is right, for YOU.. only You can choose the path You walk, and therefore, only You will need to answer for those actions... ""

Kayla~~~ In My opinion the Council and Men are the same since only Men can be Captains...LOL....
but this way a single Man with an vendetta can not take unfair advantage when the Woman truely is not at fault for doing something wrong....

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~listening to Mistress Kayla and reading the protocols page.. ~

Mandi~~~ The hostilities raised in the wake of that situation Rollo, seem to be directed at Free Women. Perhaps that is being overly sensitive.
Asellus, I have never seen You conduct Yourself with anything less than grace and poise, and You are a good example of a Free Woman. If all of Us were exactly like You, We might have zero problems.

Kayla~~~ I am only speaking for Myself here but the act of One Woman falling did not worry Me but the reactions to that act on Me personally and FW in General on the boards and in the Tavern as been openly hostile... Men have openly stated that FW beware and My name has been caste out as being the first to fall.
Well I am all for getting alittle more fear back in My role in GS and as a FW but open hunting season is scary ~shrugs~ I will do as I always have and do the best I can

Asellus~~~ *She sets Her mouth grimly in thought beneath Her veils*

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~bringing up another point~
this is on the Capture/Kill page..

Free Women may be collared only when they both lose the protection of any guards they might have, and act in a manner inconsistent with their status on Gor.

in a girl's opinion.. if a FW has been here for awhile, She should know how She's to act and would remember that to not place Herself into jeopardy..
so a girl can't see a Man collaring a FW just for the hell of it.. that there has to be a reason in doing so..

Rollo the Ax~~~ Aye, Mandi... as in many cases, one action triggers others to try to do the same.. a " feeding frenzy " type of reaction... at best.... and at worst, a trigger for one with little or no honor to persue a vendetta or * pay-back *... I can only offer to TRY and quiet or appease Your worries, by saying that as for Me, the case against any FW getting face stripped and collared, will have to be VERY clear cut and obvious... if I see a man calling himself a warrior or Master, being so petty as to abuse ANY FW such, I will do everything in My power to block or stop his cowardly actions....

Kayla~~~ ~nodding hearing His words~

Mandi~~~ If I even step into this place, I am saying I trust and respect A/all present. That should mean something.

Kayla~~~ Maybe not all in the place Mandi but that in the end right will win???? ~smiling feeling much better after Rollo's words~

Asellus~~~ *Nodding with a smile at Mandi* I agree.

Stavros~~~ As I duly believe Rollo...~nodding~ actions of such should always be warranted and never taken in a "vendetta" so to say.

arianna{Stan}~~~ does All face stripping of a FW go toward the Council for vote? If so what happens to the FW in the interim?

Rollo the Ax~~~ YES, Gor is a mans world... and Yes, FW in our tavern are a bit out of the norm, for Gor or Gorean chat rooms, at least one set in Port Kar... and yes, perhaps FW should be reminded of their precarious footing... but NO PERSON, should live in TOTAL FEAR, EVERY minute of their LIFE..RT or VT.... Lets use some COMMON friggen Sense here folks...OKAY ????

Asellus~~~ And....if one Woman feels that it is a personal 'vendetta' and the Man believes his actions to be honourable...I still would hope that the Man's words would weigh more in the long run anyway. What One feels is a vendetta could be valid...just as you say that one Man might feel a FW's actions to be inappropriate, another might disagree.
The Men are the ones who (if compelled enough and deem the Women worthy enough to bother over) should battle our battles for us, so to speak. And the FW, likewise, should remember not to let issues go too far....know when to drop something...before the Men tire of all of us and we all end up in ko'lars.

Asellus~~~ Total fear?? Online? In Gor?? *shaking Her head*
It's called the "leave" button. When VT gets that serious, it's time to call it a night, I think.

Rollo the Ax~~~ But also, Stavros, it states in the rules that any face striping needs to be done in a timely manner, or reasonable amount of time after the action.... so FW should NOT be harrassed or threatend with face striping over PAST acts or actions... they might make one watch a bit closer, but unless acted on, they are done and gone....

Stavros~~~ ~laughing~ Rollo.. are you kidding?? someone is afraid here in Gorean Shores. I would have never thought it. Comon sence says this is VT to me, afraid/fear is nowhere near my vocabulary.
I look at it differemt a bit. Actions that warrant fear is a whole different story. If someone feels they are walking on eggshells then they should remedy it. but if they are confident in their actions, then there would be no fear whatsoever right?

Kayla~~~ Asellus... That is why I for One am happy that it takes a vote and the merits of the situation will pervail not the words of two that are at odds about something....~soft smile~

Rollo the Ax~~~ Very good points, Asellus... and sound advice....

Stavros~~~ Ohh I agree 110% Rollo... but when actions are not taken swiftly, the action still remains that it has happened and would stir some anomisity towards an individual, unless it has been solved between the involved parties. If it's not resolved then the problem still exists.

Rollo the Ax~~~ ** Shaking My head... ** the terms total fear and afraid while in a VT setting have relative limits and expectations... Come on... Nobody can reach through the monitor and choke the shit out of anybody, no matter how much You wish you could at times... but to fear entering a place you call HOME ( even if only a VT home ) is WRONG on many levels... so My wording or examples... Okay ???

shirin{SholGar}~~~ ~raises her lil hand~ shirin lives in fear and walks on eggshells at times, but she's just a slave ~shrugs~

Rollo the Ax~~~ and to answer arianna... I would say YES, as long as the FW in question wishes to contest it.... If it is a case of the FW coming into the tavern with the express perpose of being captured and enslaved, then it seems a moot point to vote on.... If she wants it, and he wants it, who cares ??? go for it... but if she doesn't ??? the Council would need to VOTE... Okay, does that answer the question ???

wildsilk{JS}~~~ *grins at shirin*

Stavros~~~ ~grins at shirin~ Ahh yes you walk lightly little one...

arianna{Stan}~~~ but until the vote what of the FW? Can the FW still come to the Tavern as FW while its being contested?

Rollo the Ax~~~ arianna... during the iterum time, the FW would be in a bit of a * limbo * state.... remember that FW can be bound and detained, but it does NOT mean that they are slave...yet... she could either be bound at the post, or in a cage, but I am guessing that she would most likely rather NOT be put in such positions, until the final outcome, so she most likely would just stay in private rooms... Okay ??

arianna{Stan}~~~ thank You Master Rollo, that answers my question. also assuming the Captains would try and resolve it asap so as to make the wait not too lengthy


Peeking into GS

Rollo the Ax~~~ So ??? shall we move on to the next topic ???? LOL.. Okay, I guess we will....LOL..LOL...

Rollo the Ax~~~ the Next topic.... " . What are the ethics of using the "peek codes" to look into GS without having to log in and be seen? Who is legitimately authorized to have these codes and why do some people who are not have them? What is their legitimate purpose and use? ""

Asellus~~~ That is a very good question.

Ceredigawn Durst~~~ Excellent question Rollo. I find whomever is doing that is a bit childish, and maybe they should spend more time in the tavern then spying on others. I have heard of this but never seen it.

arianna{Stan}~~~ the 'ultimate purpose' would be what Gary intended for it to be. To make sure things were running like they should. Not to spy on people and to cause trouble. it is given to people with 'lifesaver' status, this one believes.

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~listening to arianna~.. and yet.. what if one that has the ability to *peek* gives it to another that GaryM hadn't authorized to have it?
(jaz is a lifetime member and does not have the ability to do so)..

arianna{Stan}~~~ not a lifetime member jaz, a lifesaver, there are some who do have that feature.....a girl is not sure if she should mention names but the 2 she knows of are primarily in the pool.
Someone who gives it to another that GaryM hasn't authorised to have it should have their Memberhsip revoked in ari's opinion.

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~nodding.. listening~

Asellus~~~ And then if another non-lifesaver gives it to another? It's hardly a secret anymore, I feel. That's what it's supposed to be, right? A secret thing?

Mandi~~~ It is GaryM's shot to call as to how He distributes that aurhority and responsibility.
I did not think it was intended for recreational use, for the purpose of harassment or intimidation, or for any purpose other than enforcing the Poolside rules against certain kinds of bad behavior specifically prohibited.

arianna{Stan}~~~ yes its ust meant to make sure that Poolside runs smoothly. Gary cannot be here ALL the time...he has Monitors (better word than lifesaver) those Monitors CANNOT see whispers Nor can they see posts in Private rooms.

Stavros~~~ Guess it isn't a secret anymore.. *LOL*

Rollo the Ax~~~ Okay... Once again, * MY * position, opinion, feelings, or what ever on * peeks * Mirrors * or any sort of looking glass ability.... To My knowledge, every site owner/builder, has the ability to give certain people either full powers or limited powers to do such things... like Monitors, who can boot trouble-makers, and such... I also guess that each owner can choose who ever thay want to be able to do this... In Poolside, Gary M does NOT give every life member these powers, I know this because Myself and galah are both life members, and Gary M did NOT offer use such... but I guess it is HIS choice, and HIS power to decide WHO ....

arianna{Stan}~~~ that was never a secret....Gary has posted all about Monitor duties in the Subs before...

Mandi~~~ Why should the existence of Monitors be a secret if They are here to help run the site?

arianna{Stan}~~~ They are not a secret....Just the names of the people are not common knowledge....maybe because Gary doesn't want people pestering them, who knows why....

Stavros~~~ Wondering why this is even brought up.. Is someone afraid of their actions, that would cause this worry. Surely I nor anyone else should be worried whatsoever.
I mean how would you know who is monitoring you in the firstplace, heck it could be a person in the room that could be monitoring.
I'm not worried about monitors, unless my actions seem fit by Gary to take my membership away.

Kayla~~~ Well that is the question I guess... Is it being abused to harass and intimidate? That would I hope be reported to GaryM and I am sure He can take away the priveledge as well as give it?

Mandi~~~ I would agree, Stavros, that We should not fear Our own words and are responsible for them.
My objection to using the peek codes in here is that if a Gorean wishes to participate, get in. If One wishes to not participate stay out. Don't lurk in shadows neither in nor out and try to have it both ways.

Asellus~~~ Right on, Mandi.

arianna{Stan}~~~ people should have the right to speak without evesdroppers....if that is fact what that person is doing.....NOT just Monitoring the room

arianna{Stan}~~~ but it sounds like this 'evesdropper/lurker' is just doing so to cause trouble and that is wrong and ot good for GS or Poolside as a whole.

Mandi~~~ I have in the past messed up on My browser and startled people inadvertently by just popping in and felt I had somehow breached their space by not showing up on the radar immediately, and that was entirely accidental. Lurking in any form has been discouraged in here.

arianna{Stan}~~~ a girl thinks we have all done that Mistress Mandi, timed out etc, but not intentionally lurking in the shadows

Rollo the Ax~~~ Good point, Asellus... from the ancient Elder Edda of the Norse, is a saying or teaching... " Tell one your thoughts, but beware of two, ALL know what is known to three..." And YES, it is a case of those * chosen * passing on these secret abilities... I was given the code of such a * peek * by somebody else...NOT Gary M... I am sure it was with very good intent... and I must admit that I have used it .. but I use it ONLY as a means of * watch dog, or guard * NOT as just a fun thing or to spy on others... but then, like the saying goes... * Power corrupts, and absolute pwoer corrupts, ABSOLUTLY * ... so I am not surprised that some might misuse such ability....

Stavros~~~ Ohh I agree Mandi. peek codes should not be used that way, not at all. but then what if it's not being done using the peeking ability.

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ jaz feels that if someone was in here causing troubles then there'd be a reason perhaps for someone to Monitor what is/was going on.. but if it's those Pledged and visiting Patrons.. or slaves known to Gor/GS.. then there shouldn't be any reason for ANY to eavesdrop on what's going on.. if one wishes to know what's going on in here.. then come in the room openly.. make your presence known..

Asellus~~~ *Nodding at Rollo*
That's a good quote, Captain. *smiling, jotting it down*
I could understand the temptation to use such a tool, but above all, it's creepy at best and I know I'd feel personally guilty using something like that for ill.

Stavros~~~ DAMN STRAIGHT ROLLO.. I use that quote quite often.

Mandi~~~ I guess One's conscience is One's guide, Stavros. And I would just hope and pray Most have one.

Stavros~~~ Most do Mandi.. at least I believe so.

Rollo the Ax~~~ Mandi.. simply because folks ALL want the powers.. and if Harry and Mary get to peek, why not Me and Joe, and Butch ??? YES, I agree that actual Monitors with power top boot and such, should be KNOWN, so ppl could go to them when help is needed... but on the other hand, what kind of quality time on-line would those folks have after everybody knew ???? EVERY stinking time somebody got their nose out of joint, they would go running to them, and BAM, no more fun in Poolside...only another JOB to work at ....

Kayla~~~ Sounds like a Council position Rollo *S*

Stavros~~~ Well I trust Gary gave out these monitor privelages to people he see's fit to handle the responsibility of the job.

arianna{Stan}~~~ it is something that effects not just GS but all of Poolside

Mandi~~~ **chuckles** passwords can be changed when compromised.

arianna{Stan}~~~ a girl just thought that before abusing a privilege that Gary bestowed to some he should know who else has it.

Asellus~~~ Well, perhaps Gary was duped one he entrusted it with? How else would it have become so widespread and known? *shrugs*

arianna{Stan}~~~ Yes Mistress Mandi they can and in this case they should.

Mandi~~~ Rollo should EX OFFICIO be on that list, IMHO.

Stavros~~~ ~grins~ but again Asellus, do we really know it was given out in the first place... Rumors are dangerous, specially online.. everything can be manipulated, just depends on who tells ya.. ~winks~

arianna{Stan}~~~ yes this one agress Mistress Mandi, but that is Gary's call. he is the owner of Poolside. Just because someone else decided Master Rollo should have it, Ultimately its up to Gary

Asellus~~~ I know, Stavros. *nods*

Stavros~~~ ~laughing~ Heck.. look at the boards.. we got anon's posting, we got people posting as other people... it's a little overwhelming at times.. ~shaking my head~

Rollo the Ax~~~ MY position, is this.... Gary M swears that NOBODY can read whispers, ( I don't know if HE can, but I am SURE he was better things to do than perve at whispers...) So whispers should be SAFE... the * peek * only works, to My knowledge, in the public rooms... so again, private rooms would seem to be safe... But when it is all said and done, ANYTHING said openly, in ANY of the public rooms, COULD be seen by ANYBODY, even those using a peek... so to My thinking, if you don't want to be held accountable for saying anything, DON'T say it in an open room... BUT I also think, feel, and will fight for the rule that ANY * quote * or C+P offered as evidence, MUST be from a person IN ther SAME room... No watching a peek, with folks thinking they are alone, and have somebody C+P or quote them to prove ANYTHING... the right to assume privasy SHOULD be upheld... like an illegal wire tap .... NO GOOD as PROOF .......

arianna{Stan}~~~ A Monitor has just told me that Gary see's all who logs on to the monitor page so no one is really sneaking,, he keeps track of it and is in the process of changing who he entrust with the page, he needs assistance, he cant monitor rooms and boot problems 24 hours a day.. he is only one man

Kayla~~~ I must admit that the idea doesn't bother Me much.. knowing there are monitors and also that anything you say could be C&P'd and shared with others, or that someone can enter and just read back... is a part of chat life... Now whispers and a private room talk... that would really bother Me... If I go to all that trouble I would hope what I was saying was private...

Mandi~~~ Theoretically, all that junk, even whispers, gets archived somewhere but it is in a pretty incoherent form. If You are stupid enough to give out Your password, Someone can ghost in and read Your whispers. Private rooms are supposedly not visible.

Stavros~~~ Rollo.. I was wondering how to state that.. tongue got all twisted, but you took the word right out of my mouth.. LOL

arianna{Stan}~~~ that is true Master Stavros, it was brought up long ago about anon postings etc on the GS Boards and even the suggestion of password protecting them like the subs and DM boards, however Many other Goreans come here who aren't members so that wouldn't work. they are entitled to read the GS boards

Stavros~~~ yepp got an earfull of that already.. arianna... *grinning*

Rollo the Ax~~~ I will admit that in the past, because of My position on the Council, first as FS, and then as senoir captain, Gary M gave Me a * limited * power...to * slow down * non-poolside members that were being trouble makers... not to boot them, but to make it slow and hard to keep posting.... I used it when needed, but then when Gary changed * stuff * after one of the hacker attacks, I no longer had it... Shrugs... so I also hope that Gary would trust Me with this peek, but He never offered, and I didn't know it existed, so I didn't ask....

Mandi~~~ Perhaps O/our boards are more.....well.....uh.......dynamic when We are not thinking about how Our posts look to Others. I would like to see the boards be more dignified, and would like to see an "honor" system work.

arianna{Stan}~~~ *smile* i am sure He'd give it to You Master Rollo, as Senior Captain of this room You should have it. You are fair and wouldn't boot for no reason

Stavros~~~ ~Grinning at Mandi...~ I'm working on it.. LOL!!!

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~shifting slightly on heels as the ahn begins to grow later.. wiggling fingers then waiting to scribe more.. ~

Rollo the Ax~~~ Mandi... the only trouble with depending on an Honor system, is getting EVERYBODY to act or react, Honorably..... a Catch 22 if ever there was one....

Rollo the Ax~~~ Well, folks...our time is up for the night... please feel free to keep dicussung the matters, but RT is pulling both our scribe and Myself away.... Thanks for coming and taking part...I hope to see everybody again next week...Be Well.....

Mandi~~~ *smile lines appear above veils*
Yes, if an honor system is a Catch 22, perhaps expecting honor in roleplay is an oxymoron.

jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~smiling as the Torvaldslander speaks.. ~
a girl thanks You, Master Rollo once again.. and wishes You a wonderful evening..